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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4073366" data-attributes="member: 18">Having read a lot of Lieber recently, there is no possible way to call the Mouser a "brawny" Rogue. There is absolutely nothing "brawny" or "thuggish" about him. He's a small, usually skinny (sometimes out-of-shape) individual, who, as far as I can recall, never uses his strength particularly, but instead is always characterised as using agility and precision. He also think his way out of situations with some regularity, something it seems 4E Rogues with their int-dumpstat won't be doing. He's also notable for his lack of sensible-ness/wisdom.More recent archetypical rogues would include all of the Gentlemen Bastards from The Lies of Locke Lamora and Red Skies over Red Seas.Locke Lamora himself is clearly oriented towards intelligence primarily, with elaborate plans, forgery, disguise and other trickery all being his forte. I guess that makes him a Charismatic Rogue. He's also pretty nimble, and decent in a fight, much as he denies it. He'd be easy to replicate in 3.5E, we'll see if his intelligence benefits him at all in 4E.Jean Tannen, on the other hand, is very much a Brawny Rogue and would fit right in with almost everything described there.</blockquote>