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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jaer" data-source="post: 4073824" data-attributes="member: 57861">I thought they were balanced around roles, not actually designed around them.  In this respect, a rogue is a striker in combat, and he fulfills that roll in combat, so your party is not down a striker if they have the skill monkey, too.  And similarly, they designed classes to have more use out of combat so the fighter isn't simply relegated to carrying heavy items when the fight is over.To me, that does not mean "We looked at the rogue class thoroughly from a combat stand point and ditched the cool stuff he did out of combat."  Having some balance in combat based on role does not mean the classes are equal in that respect.  A warlock might flat out do more damage than a rogue and be able to push people around a little better...but the rogue has more skills which he can use both in and out of combat.One of the nice things about all rogues having Thievery as trained is you can have specific rogue powers that use the talent, and the rogue doesn't feel jipped because he needs to invest in that skill or the power is useless (House rules beware!  If Tumble requires trained in Athletics and another ability that level requires trained in Thievery, if you house rule Thievery isn't automatic, players might not have any options this level).There could be a pickpocket power that allows rogues to use their thievery skill in combat when most others cannot in order to boost a healing potion off his opponents belt.  Perhaps in conjuction with an attack (as a distraction).This takes the typical roguey thing that now others can do and once more gives back to the rogue a special way to do it so that he is still the Skill Master.  There could be other powers as well that focus on a rogue's skills, giving him greater options for using some skills outside of combat.  The rogue might not have that many more skills as other classes, but even one one of the first statements about 4e said something about rogues being able to do things with the basic skill set that other classes just cannot do, even if they have the skill.</blockquote>

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