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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 8252310" data-attributes="member: 6704184">Okay, I don’t actually plan on making a tinker class. For once, that’s a concept I think can live in a few subclasses for various classes and some other options like feats and expanded downtime rules. HOWEVER, I do have a problem with the Rogue and Bard, and how they divide their shared conceptual space in 5e.Rogue is the skill monkey who can gank you. Overall the story archetype at play here could be called Jack. Luck, wits, and skill are your tools. You’re designed to trick the devil into setting his pants on fire, and survive doing so, but not by being tough.Bard is...the Jack of all trades? Why!? How did this even happen!? (No don’t tell me, I know the game history, I’m being facetious)The 5e Bard is perhaps the least Bardic Bard I’ve played, IMO. Some of the problem is the spell list, part is being too much a spellcaster which leaves not enough room for Bard. What I want from a Bard is to curse those who cross me, to change the luck of friend and foe, to walk into the King’s Court without invitation and be tolerated because I am a Bard, and to heal and harm with words, to call an enemy clumsy and they become clumsy, to turn crowds and kingdoms for or against someone, and to embody the archetype of the Bard.I know druids have basically nothing to do with RL druids, but they also have a very unique and compelling place in D&D , where the 5e bard is really just the Jack of all trades caster.IdeasRogue and Bard overlap too much. I’d focus the Bard’s skills a bit more, possibly ditch JoAT and replace it with a Lore feature.Bardic Inspiration is effective, but feels weird and just...lacking thematically. This should be group buffs and debuffs, IMO. Perhaps you create an aura as a bonus action, choosing from a few effects when you do. Spellcasting...I’d get rid of magical secrets, and decrease the Bard’s high level casting to still get to 9th level spells, but just have fewer slots above 5th level. I’d also cut out spells like lightning bolt. If the Bard hits someone with lightning it should be because they called out to the sky for lightning and the sky answered. Any damage spells should be those that are very thematic, no random damage spells just to have them.The base class should be a little better at fighting. Not a full warrior class necessarily, though that wouldn’t be inappropriate, but at least decent proficiencies and put Hex on the spell list.Just some thoughts. I don’t know if they’ll lead anywhere.</blockquote>

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