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<blockquote data-quote="Salthorae" data-source="post: 8252387" data-attributes="member: 1095">So.. you want to have all the abilities of a Valor Bard (better fighting) and a Lore Bard (three more skills and cutting words) ... and you want to get rid of the ability that would let you just take the spell you think Bards should have (Hex)? You say you want to focus on Bard's skills... but then want to get rid of the very ability (Jack of all Trades) that makes a bard good at skills?A rogue already doesn't have to be a murder machine. You never have to use sneak attack. What should a bard &quot;feel&quot; like? I personally think Bard is the most powerful class in 5e which is an over correction from being the weakest in 3/3.5. It could have stood to be just a 1/2 caster like the ranger or paladin and still been just fine balance wise with the other classes. To go back to their 2e status which is how I first encountered them, part rogue, part fighter, with a smattering of wizard casting picked up here and there + music and lore (via songs and histories). Their overlap with Rogue is... historic, they were afterall a subclass of rogue in 2e alongside thief. it's their massive increase in casting capacity which throws me for a loop in the 5e Bard, not their roguish overlap. That said... I've mostly given up on changing classes to suit my tastes for my game. I set the stage and let people play what's in the books as they want to play them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Salthorae, post: 8252387, member: 1095"] So.. you want to have all the abilities of a Valor Bard (better fighting) and a Lore Bard (three more skills and cutting words) ... and you want to get rid of the ability that would let you just take the spell you think Bards should have (Hex)? You say you want to focus on Bard's skills... but then want to get rid of the very ability (Jack of all Trades) that makes a bard good at skills? A rogue already doesn't have to be a murder machine. You never have to use sneak attack. What should a bard "feel" like? I personally think Bard is the most powerful class in 5e which is an over correction from being the weakest in 3/3.5. It could have stood to be just a 1/2 caster like the ranger or paladin and still been just fine balance wise with the other classes. To go back to their 2e status which is how I first encountered them, part rogue, part fighter, with a smattering of wizard casting picked up here and there + music and lore (via songs and histories). Their overlap with Rogue is... historic, they were afterall a subclass of rogue in 2e alongside thief. it's their massive increase in casting capacity which throws me for a loop in the 5e Bard, not their roguish overlap. That said... I've mostly given up on changing classes to suit my tastes for my game. I set the stage and let people play what's in the books as they want to play them. [/QUOTE]

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