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Rogue Design and Trapfinding: What do you think of these design choices?
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5407230" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>It's decent, I still think they could use more skill help. They have enough skill points, the problem is PF's system prevents them from becoming very good at a skill compared to other classes. Unless it's a dex skill, it's likely that another class wil surpass them at any given skill, even if said class doesn't get the +3 class skill bonus, by sheer ability score modifier alone (Rogues are MAD). In 3E, for example, Use Magic Device as a class skill really felt like a unique class feature. Even if the sorcerer maxed his ranks in it to levy his huge charisma, he'd be paying double (and barring human or a high int actually blowing ALL of his skill points into it) and his bonus would be half what rogue got from ranks, so eventully rogue would still surpass him. Nevermind in PF that is is a class skill for a sorc, even a Paladin w/o it as one will easily surpass the rogue at it.</p><p></p><p>I get that people thought the old class skill system was too punitive and such, and I do mostly like PF's changes to it. But don't try to tell me that it wasn't also a massive stealth nerf to Rogue (and Bard and Ranger).</p><p></p><p>So I'd say give them bonuses on selected skills. Maybe keep it simple and give a free Skill Focus every couple of levels. Just <em>something</em>...</p><p></p><p>EDIT: The part in sneak attack that says any sort of concealment prevents you from using it also needs to go. Only inability to see the target or total concealment should be enough. I saw Paizo designers say they'd support such a change. And then...instead of fixing the 3E system like PF was supposed to and issuing a simple eratta...they put it as a feat patch in the APG, which to add insult to injury has a BAB +1 requirement preventing rogues from taking it at level 1. Cause I feel like such a sneaky badass when <strong>my class doesn't function in a dark alley</strong>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5407230, member: 35909"] It's decent, I still think they could use more skill help. They have enough skill points, the problem is PF's system prevents them from becoming very good at a skill compared to other classes. Unless it's a dex skill, it's likely that another class wil surpass them at any given skill, even if said class doesn't get the +3 class skill bonus, by sheer ability score modifier alone (Rogues are MAD). In 3E, for example, Use Magic Device as a class skill really felt like a unique class feature. Even if the sorcerer maxed his ranks in it to levy his huge charisma, he'd be paying double (and barring human or a high int actually blowing ALL of his skill points into it) and his bonus would be half what rogue got from ranks, so eventully rogue would still surpass him. Nevermind in PF that is is a class skill for a sorc, even a Paladin w/o it as one will easily surpass the rogue at it. I get that people thought the old class skill system was too punitive and such, and I do mostly like PF's changes to it. But don't try to tell me that it wasn't also a massive stealth nerf to Rogue (and Bard and Ranger). So I'd say give them bonuses on selected skills. Maybe keep it simple and give a free Skill Focus every couple of levels. Just [i]something[/i]... EDIT: The part in sneak attack that says any sort of concealment prevents you from using it also needs to go. Only inability to see the target or total concealment should be enough. I saw Paizo designers say they'd support such a change. And then...instead of fixing the 3E system like PF was supposed to and issuing a simple eratta...they put it as a feat patch in the APG, which to add insult to injury has a BAB +1 requirement preventing rogues from taking it at level 1. Cause I feel like such a sneaky badass when [b]my class doesn't function in a dark alley[/b]. [/QUOTE]
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Rogue Design and Trapfinding: What do you think of these design choices?
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