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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5408655" data-attributes="member: 35909">I guess it's sort of one of those things where it looks different on paper than in play?&nbsp; I didn't even think of skill issues until I played my rogue and realized someone else in the party was better than me at every single skill I had.&nbsp; And that was at level 1 where the +3 class skill bonus is making the most impact, and in some cases where the other players didn't have it as a class skill.&nbsp; I coud only imagine the problem growing with levels.As far as bigger HD...Rogue badly needed it, and EVERY class below a d8 HD got a HD boost in PF, so that's far from a rogue-unique boost.Consolidated skills: Here's the thing...a Fighter can just dip Rogue or Ranger 1 and gain a massive influx of +3 class skill boni, it's really not as amazing as it first seems in terms of class perks.Rogue Talents are basically 2 bonus feats and then a bunch of other questionably useful stuff.&nbsp; Lots of classes gained feats in PF, and in general feat chains are longer and/or feats were slightly weakened from 3E.And you're neglecting a lot of the nerfs rogue suffered in PF, which have been covered quite a bit already.Rogue might not be weaker than in 3E (I think it might actually be weaker, but its debatable), but at best it kinda pulled even.&nbsp; After being an underpowered class in 3E and after other classes like Fighter, Sorcerer, and Paladin got very large boosts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5408655, member: 35909"] I guess it's sort of one of those things where it looks different on paper than in play? I didn't even think of skill issues until I played my rogue and realized someone else in the party was better than me at every single skill I had. And that was at level 1 where the +3 class skill bonus is making the most impact, and in some cases where the other players didn't have it as a class skill. I coud only imagine the problem growing with levels. As far as bigger HD...Rogue badly needed it, and EVERY class below a d8 HD got a HD boost in PF, so that's far from a rogue-unique boost. Consolidated skills: Here's the thing...a Fighter can just dip Rogue or Ranger 1 and gain a massive influx of +3 class skill boni, it's really not as amazing as it first seems in terms of class perks. Rogue Talents are basically 2 bonus feats and then a bunch of other questionably useful stuff. Lots of classes gained feats in PF, and in general feat chains are longer and/or feats were slightly weakened from 3E. And you're neglecting a lot of the nerfs rogue suffered in PF, which have been covered quite a bit already. Rogue might not be weaker than in 3E (I think it might actually be weaker, but its debatable), but at best it kinda pulled even. After being an underpowered class in 3E and after other classes like Fighter, Sorcerer, and Paladin got very large boosts. [/QUOTE]

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