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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 5903507" data-attributes="member: 5143">It really depends on a number of things if those work.  I mean, if they enemy has ranged attacks and they are better than the rogues(because rogues aren't good at fighting head on) then they can stand there by a wall firing back and win every time.If a rogue does so little damage that he is not an effective combatant without a Sneak Attack/Backstab...then perhaps the Wizard isn't afraid of him appearing next to him because he can just unleash a Burning Hands(or something else) and kill him instead.What happens if they never move?  They know that if they move they'll die, so they do everything they can to stay precisely where they are.  Or the DM says they move in unison to avoid a gap.Or worse yet, if Backstab is worded the same way it was in older editions and it only works when the enemy is unaware of your presence making such tactics completely unneeded.  Given that every DM I've played under said that if the Rogue was visible even once in the combat, the enemies were aware he was present and it didn't matter how many times he hid and jumped out of the shadows, his Backstab didn't work.Plus, the number of DMs who said "You can't hide, they can see you.  While someone is watching you, hiding doesn't work.  Maybe if you ran down the hallway completely out of sight and then came back, but when you enter through the doorway, they are going to see you again.  You can't keep hiding in a room with no cover and light enough to see."All in all, it may require a little extra thinking - in the same way that choosing to fight with one's back to the wall took a little extra thinking - but those tactics should be easy enough to foil.No, but it should be close.  I find that "meaningfully" ends up meaning something like 50% of the maximum damage dealer in the group.  Anything less than that and people start wondering why they brought you around.So if a Ranger gets 4 attacks per round for 1d8+10 damage a piece then the Rogue who is only able to Backstab once every 3 rounds needs to have a Backstab that does at least 6d8+60.When damage starts getting that high, it starts to worry me, however.  Then you end up with situations like this:"I am Lord Big Evil Guy!  I have ruled this land for 1000 years.  No one has ever defeated me for I live forever and am all powerful!  Cower before me worms for I will...URK"Rogue: "So, I snuck up behind him and Backstabbed him for 100 points of damage.  That kills him?"DM: *sigh*  "Yes"</blockquote>

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