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<blockquote data-quote="BobTheNob" data-source="post: 6046681" data-attributes="member: 82425">Rogue expertise. Wow, what a storm that is causing.Im in the &quot;I dont like rogues as fighter light&quot; camp. Just dislike the two classes overlapping. However, I am also in the &quot;rogues should be able to do *something* in a fight&quot; camp. I just dont want it to be the same thing as a fighter.I want something far more interesting that that. I want the rogue to improvise, and I want there to be a framework for supporting this. I will borrow from FATE which had FATE points, but will rename to &quot;improvisation&quot; points, or even improvisation dice. The aspect I am taking from FATE (for those that know FATE, thats a pun!) is using point to inject narrative, that you can &quot;add&quot; things into what is going on around you rather than them having to be pre-defined by adventure design.For instance, a fight in the main hall of a castle.Player (of the rogue) : &quot;Hey, that chandalier above the guards&quot;DM : &quot;There is no chandalier&quot;Player : (Wink) &quot;Oh, I think there is&quot;DM : &quot;You know, I think you are right, there is a chandalier...spend an improvisation point&quot;Player : &quot;And Im standing near the rope to cut it loose?&quot;DM : &quot;Yep&quot;Player : &quot;Cut the rope&quot;At this point, the DM has a series of guidelines to define expected damage, knockdown and pinning for those under the falling chandalier plus expected save targets. Just to push the example furtherPlayer : &quot;Can I hold onto the rope and have it catapult me to the 2nd floor balcony?&quot;DM : &quot;Ok your pushing your luck with what this chandalier can do for you now&quot;Player : &quot;Even if I pay another improvisation point?&quot;DM : &quot;In that case, No problem, but I will require an acrobatics roll to have you pull it off&quot;Player : &quot;Done&quot;The end result of this interaction is the player cuts a rope on a chandalier which drops onto 3 guards, one of which jumped clear. The player then held the rope as it pulled him upwards with such force that he flew up to the second floor balcony.This is what I sorta want to see with a rogue. No, he doesnt directly confront enemies in combat. He is just not as toe-to-toe as a fighter is. Rather, he looks around and finds ways to turn the encounter to his advantage. He improvises. To me, it gives the rogue his own schtick, leaves the fighter his schtick, and brings a whole new type of character into the game for those of players who enjoy that sort of thing.(This is spitballing, so if you dont like the idea, you can disagree without vowing a death curse on me and my family for having suggested)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BobTheNob, post: 6046681, member: 82425"] Rogue expertise. Wow, what a storm that is causing. Im in the "I dont like rogues as fighter light" camp. Just dislike the two classes overlapping. However, I am also in the "rogues should be able to do *something* in a fight" camp. I just dont want it to be the same thing as a fighter. I want something far more interesting that that. I want the rogue to improvise, and I want there to be a framework for supporting this. I will borrow from FATE which had FATE points, but will rename to "improvisation" points, or even improvisation dice. The aspect I am taking from FATE (for those that know FATE, thats a pun!) is using point to inject narrative, that you can "add" things into what is going on around you rather than them having to be pre-defined by adventure design. For instance, a fight in the main hall of a castle. Player (of the rogue) : "Hey, that chandalier above the guards" DM : "There is no chandalier" Player : (Wink) "Oh, I think there is" DM : "You know, I think you are right, there is a chandalier...spend an improvisation point" Player : "And Im standing near the rope to cut it loose?" DM : "Yep" Player : "Cut the rope" At this point, the DM has a series of guidelines to define expected damage, knockdown and pinning for those under the falling chandalier plus expected save targets. Just to push the example further Player : "Can I hold onto the rope and have it catapult me to the 2nd floor balcony?" DM : "Ok your pushing your luck with what this chandalier can do for you now" Player : "Even if I pay another improvisation point?" DM : "In that case, No problem, but I will require an acrobatics roll to have you pull it off" Player : "Done" The end result of this interaction is the player cuts a rope on a chandalier which drops onto 3 guards, one of which jumped clear. The player then held the rope as it pulled him upwards with such force that he flew up to the second floor balcony. This is what I sorta want to see with a rogue. No, he doesnt directly confront enemies in combat. He is just not as toe-to-toe as a fighter is. Rather, he looks around and finds ways to turn the encounter to his advantage. He improvises. To me, it gives the rogue his own schtick, leaves the fighter his schtick, and brings a whole new type of character into the game for those of players who enjoy that sort of thing. (This is spitballing, so if you dont like the idea, you can disagree without vowing a death curse on me and my family for having suggested) [/QUOTE]

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