Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Rogue Mastermind Archetype Up, Courtesy of Extra Life
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 7682810" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Normally I would put this in one of the Warlord threads, but the only one on the main page (yeah, there's only <em>one</em> now guys!) is too context-specific for it, so it has to default to this thread instead. I did a quick skim of the previous 15 pages and didn't see anyone mention these points, so I'm *hoping* I'm not just rehashing something that's already been discussed. If so, I apologize--I know I hate having to answer the same questions over and over, even if every time they are asked in earnest. Anyway...</p><p></p><p>I'm seriously surprised that this Mastermind archetype hasn't been met with the forum equivalent of armed resistance. It seems to violate a number of rhetorical points made against the creation of a Warlord, without having earned a single peep of anger or offense (from what I can tell). Specifically:</p><p></p><p>1. "Master of Tactics"? Oh no, we're giving tactics stuff to classes that aren't the Fighter! The Fighter will be useless/meaningless/sidelined now! Except...nobody's saying that. People have noted how limited it is at 3rd level (only giving the Help action--though at no cost to the Rogue except <em>her</em> action), but I haven't seen a single person complain that this is stripping the Fighter of its martial significance. Why not? Isn't this exactly the same kind of thing, different merely in degree?</p><p></p><p>2. Spooky action at a distance! How is this Help action suddenly extended to a 30' distance, when no other characters can do the same thing? The Mastermind can't use magic. How can it Help others attack an enemy at a distance when a Fighter or Barbarian--masters of physical combat--cannot do so? Yet I haven't seen even the vague rumblings that point 1 got--<em>nobody</em> seems to mind that a purely non-magical character can achieve a simple action which other characters cannot.</p><p></p><p>3. Mundane abilities being more powerful than magic!! This is the one that <em>really</em> gets me. This Rogue, through explicitly no means other than skill and talent, is <em>more powerful than a magic spell.</em> Through 100% non-magical means, it becomes immune to a form of magic (compulsion to tell the truth, detection of truth/lies). Sure, it's a high-level ability, but doesn't this bother <em>anybody</em>?</p><p></p><p>How did the Mastermind so...<em>masterfully</em> succeed at dodging ire?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 7682810, member: 6790260"] Normally I would put this in one of the Warlord threads, but the only one on the main page (yeah, there's only [I]one[/I] now guys!) is too context-specific for it, so it has to default to this thread instead. I did a quick skim of the previous 15 pages and didn't see anyone mention these points, so I'm *hoping* I'm not just rehashing something that's already been discussed. If so, I apologize--I know I hate having to answer the same questions over and over, even if every time they are asked in earnest. Anyway... I'm seriously surprised that this Mastermind archetype hasn't been met with the forum equivalent of armed resistance. It seems to violate a number of rhetorical points made against the creation of a Warlord, without having earned a single peep of anger or offense (from what I can tell). Specifically: 1. "Master of Tactics"? Oh no, we're giving tactics stuff to classes that aren't the Fighter! The Fighter will be useless/meaningless/sidelined now! Except...nobody's saying that. People have noted how limited it is at 3rd level (only giving the Help action--though at no cost to the Rogue except [I]her[/I] action), but I haven't seen a single person complain that this is stripping the Fighter of its martial significance. Why not? Isn't this exactly the same kind of thing, different merely in degree? 2. Spooky action at a distance! How is this Help action suddenly extended to a 30' distance, when no other characters can do the same thing? The Mastermind can't use magic. How can it Help others attack an enemy at a distance when a Fighter or Barbarian--masters of physical combat--cannot do so? Yet I haven't seen even the vague rumblings that point 1 got--[I]nobody[/I] seems to mind that a purely non-magical character can achieve a simple action which other characters cannot. 3. Mundane abilities being more powerful than magic!! This is the one that [I]really[/I] gets me. This Rogue, through explicitly no means other than skill and talent, is [I]more powerful than a magic spell.[/I] Through 100% non-magical means, it becomes immune to a form of magic (compulsion to tell the truth, detection of truth/lies). Sure, it's a high-level ability, but doesn't this bother [I]anybody[/I]? How did the Mastermind so...[I]masterfully[/I] succeed at dodging ire? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Rogue Mastermind Archetype Up, Courtesy of Extra Life
Top