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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 6980074" data-attributes="member: 58416">Further thoughts...The more I try to convince myself that I liked the movie, the more I start to feel like I didn't.  There are just too many things about the movie which bug me.  I think it creates more plot holes than it fixes.  (Maybe not holes exactly; perhaps plot windows is more accurate.)  The main character wasn't really that interesting, and she seemed less like a character and more like than a plot device to drive forward a plot that really wasn't that strong to begin with.What do I mean?The whole point behind the character existing or having anything to do with the story seems to rest on the fact that she's connected to other characters.  Her dad is building the Death Star, and the guy who raised her is in charge of a militant group who has possession of a pilot.  Beyond that, I'm not sure there is a reason for the character to be there, and, in many ways, I think the story would make more sense if it didn't hinge upon Jyn.Galen Erso agrees to build a weapon of mass destruction based on some pretty flimsy motivations.  I can understanding wanting to protect your family, but you already witnessed your wife being shot right in front of you.  So why would you have any faith in the idea that your daughter would be sage even if you did build the Death Star?  Furthermore, what are the chances that the Empire would even be able to find your daughter?  She seemed to have no problem flying under the radar from age 7-ish until about 30.  One on world, it's hard enough to find someone.  What are the chances she would be found in a galaxy far far away?  With that in mind, it seems that Galen builds a weapon capable of killing everyone on a planet based on thin and somewhat convoluted reasoning.  ...and he does this for the railroaded reasoning of thinking that maybe somehow he could build a flaw into the design and leak that design to an enemy force.  So, it seems reasonable that his daughter might be captured in light of astronomical odds, but somehow the idea of some random pilot safely carrying the information to the murderous and unhinged leader of a militant rebel group and surviving all while avoiding the same Empire which would capture Jyn seems reasonable?  I'm willing to ignore a lot of things in movie plots for the same of cinematic enjoyment, but the whole story of Galen and Jyn asks me to ignore a lot of things for the narrative to make sense, and, even then, it's a thin and flimsy motivation for a character.I don't think Rogue One was a very good Star Wars movie.  I do not believe it was a very good war movie either.  The combat scenes are too often choreographed in a way which make absolutely no sense in terms of combat or tactics.  Even if I try to consider that sacrifices were made to maintain genre and SW franchise expectations, it still doesn't make any sense."Hey, we're a whole squad of Storm Troopers.  There's one guy with a stick in the middle of a street.  We could shoot him, but, instead, we'll all walk together until we're within melee range and get beat down with a stick."  Don't get me wrong, I thought the blind pseudo-Jedi monk was a cool character.  However, the scenes were constructed in such a way that they did more to showcase how stupid and useless Storm Trooper training must be rather than being constructed in such a way that they allowed the character to be cool.  Having the Empire be so lackluster and pathetic manages to undercut how I perceive the skill of the Rebels.  It came across as a movie which was maybe made for an adult audience when the themes of war were explored, but then the film was given the logical sensibilities of a cartoon or kids' movie.  Had it been done well, the film would have adequately served both target audiences.  As it stands, my opinion is that it falls far short of doing either particularly well.  The space battle was passable with a few near-awesome moments.  Unfortunately, I feel that those possibly awesome moments were somewhat lost in the somewhat muddled and convoluted reasoning for the action.  I understood why the battle was taking place.  I understood why the ground battle was important.  I understood all of the individual pieces.  I do not feel the individual pieces were woven together in a very coherent combat narrative.  Really, that's how a feel about the movie as a whole.  There are a lot of elements in the movie that I think were really cool.  K2-S0 was a well rounded character, and it was nice to see a droid with a different role than what we've seen previously.  He did a good job of combining Star Wars style Droid Comedy with the big beefy pilot's sidekick role.  As mentioned already, Chirrut Imwe (blind pseudo-Jedi monk) was an interesting character also.  It was a nice embodiment of what it might be like to still follow a faith which was on the losing end of a conflict.  I also liked that it was left ambiguous as to whether or not the Force was helping him.  Though, with that in mind, I'm again reminded why I was upset at how incompetent The Empire is made to look.  As I'm watching the movie, part of my mind wants to buy into the idea that I'm not sure if he's using the Force, but then part of my brain kicks in and says "nah, these are just some of the worst Storm Troopers ever."Baze Malbus was a cool character as well.  I'm not sure if this was the intent, but he seemed as though he had stepped right out of 40K (or Edge of The Empire) and into a Star Wars movie.  His parts in movie were well constructed for the most part.I could go on and one, but the point is the same.  There are a lot of parts to the movie that I liked.  Unfortunately, I didn't like the movie as a whole.  Instead of this movie, I think Rogue One would have been far better as episodes of a mini series which introduced each character, gave them time to shine, and then wove them together into a better and more coherent story.  I also think that eliminating the character of Jyn Erso and having a more straightforward narrative to explain the importance of Galen Erso would be better.In hindsight, while I loved seeing Vader in action, I feel like maybe that could have been done better too.  Vader is a good villain because he's charismatic, menacing, and foreboding.  He's like the embodiment of a Hitchcock Horror film.  Instead of building that throughout the movie and climaxing with action, Rogue One decides to throw in a seemingly pointless scene of Vader earlier in the movie as an unnecessary wink to the audience and then hopes to use the last sequence in the film to make me forget that I wasn't really into the rest of the movie.  The last sequence is actually pretty cool, but the reason why it does such a great job of making me forget the rest of the movie is because the rest of the movie fails to make an impression and is easily forgettable.     I tried really hard to like the movie, but I don't think that I do.  Rogue One is the Suicide Squad of the Star Wars movie franchise.  While I believe that Rogue One is a better movie than Suicide Squad, I also believe that Rogue One fails for a lot of the same reasons.  It has a lot of nods to the fans and the fictional world in which it exists, but it doesn't deliver.  I don't hate it, but it's disappointing and a little bit depressing when I think about what it could have been when I look at the individual parts compared to what it actually was as a whole when those parts were put together.  In the end, it's hard to fathom that 40 year old movies made using muppets and 1970s special effects manage to feel more believable than what came out of Rogue One's 200 Million Dollar Budget.</blockquote>

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