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Rogue: Pure skill personified
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<blockquote data-quote="SteelDraco" data-source="post: 5837576" data-attributes="member: 359"><p>I had some similar thoughts about rebuilding the rogue, but have concerns and thoughts about how some of this is implemented. Anything I don't mention I'm a fan of, and I'm pretty sure most of the inspiration for the rogue remake I'm planning comes from a previous draft of this you posted somewhere on these boards, so I'm generally a fan of this as a project.</p><p></p><p>The Skill Focus doesn't seem necessary in light of the other changes you're making. I know you've stated a desire to considerably increase the power of the monk and rogue classes; I just feel like you're overshooting the mark for me. That's a design decision you've stated, though. As written, Skill Focus doesn't do much for Epic Skills - most of them don't seem to actually require skill checks, so being able to get high rolls isn't relevant, just the ranks you have. At a certain point a result of 47 just isn't that different from a 41, or whatever.</p><p></p><p>You seem to not be using the rogue talents mechanic much, which I feel is undervalued because the existing ones suck. I'd rather see those rewritten to be improved and include some kind of point-based per-day mechanic like the ninja's ki pool - I've been favoring calling it a cunning pool for Int-based rogues and a panache pool for Charisma-based rogues (with "Panache Rogue" as an archetype that basically just says "switch out Int for Charisma in class abilities"). I've also considered implementing it as a grit-like mechanic that refills when the rogue does appropriately rogue-y things, like dropping enemies with sneak attack and winning opposed skill checks by a wide enough margin.</p><p></p><p>I like the idea of giving rogues a bonus to initiative - it should be something rogues are awesome at. My plan was to give them a bonus equal to their Int modifier as long as they have any points in their cunning pool. I was going to have a talent that allowed them to act normally in a surprise round - I think the "take a penalty to your roll if you want to act normally" mechanic you have is a bit needlessly complicated.</p><p></p><p>Not sure why you have two pools of class ability points, a ki pool and an "epic skill pool" that shows up at 10th level. Wouldn't it make sense to have the epic skills spend points from the ki pool?</p><p></p><p>I can see an argument for good Will saves, but I'd almost rather have the rogue be able to get a bonus to saves from his ki pool if he wants to spend the point. A resource of "luck" or "cunning" that can run out fits better to me than a rogue just being as good at resisting mental effects as a cleric or wizard.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SteelDraco, post: 5837576, member: 359"] I had some similar thoughts about rebuilding the rogue, but have concerns and thoughts about how some of this is implemented. Anything I don't mention I'm a fan of, and I'm pretty sure most of the inspiration for the rogue remake I'm planning comes from a previous draft of this you posted somewhere on these boards, so I'm generally a fan of this as a project. The Skill Focus doesn't seem necessary in light of the other changes you're making. I know you've stated a desire to considerably increase the power of the monk and rogue classes; I just feel like you're overshooting the mark for me. That's a design decision you've stated, though. As written, Skill Focus doesn't do much for Epic Skills - most of them don't seem to actually require skill checks, so being able to get high rolls isn't relevant, just the ranks you have. At a certain point a result of 47 just isn't that different from a 41, or whatever. You seem to not be using the rogue talents mechanic much, which I feel is undervalued because the existing ones suck. I'd rather see those rewritten to be improved and include some kind of point-based per-day mechanic like the ninja's ki pool - I've been favoring calling it a cunning pool for Int-based rogues and a panache pool for Charisma-based rogues (with "Panache Rogue" as an archetype that basically just says "switch out Int for Charisma in class abilities"). I've also considered implementing it as a grit-like mechanic that refills when the rogue does appropriately rogue-y things, like dropping enemies with sneak attack and winning opposed skill checks by a wide enough margin. I like the idea of giving rogues a bonus to initiative - it should be something rogues are awesome at. My plan was to give them a bonus equal to their Int modifier as long as they have any points in their cunning pool. I was going to have a talent that allowed them to act normally in a surprise round - I think the "take a penalty to your roll if you want to act normally" mechanic you have is a bit needlessly complicated. Not sure why you have two pools of class ability points, a ki pool and an "epic skill pool" that shows up at 10th level. Wouldn't it make sense to have the epic skills spend points from the ki pool? I can see an argument for good Will saves, but I'd almost rather have the rogue be able to get a bonus to saves from his ki pool if he wants to spend the point. A resource of "luck" or "cunning" that can run out fits better to me than a rogue just being as good at resisting mental effects as a cleric or wizard. [/QUOTE]
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