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Rogue Stealth in Battle
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<blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 6686224" data-attributes="member: 40177"><p>I feel the need to verify a few claims. Majoru is mostly right, though this "full cover" thing isn't exactly right.</p><p></p><p>Basically, you can try to hide from someone when they can't see you. There is no "full cover" business. If it's pitch black, but you're in an open room, you can hide. If it's a smoky room, you can hide. If you're crouched behind a barrel, you can hide. The only requirement is that the guy you're hiding from cannot see you.</p><p></p><p>After that, you make your check. You are hidden until you do something that changes that condition - usually attacking. But let's say I hide behind a column. If I move out from behind that column into the open, I might have to make another stealth check - with disadvantage, maybe - to avoid notice.</p><p></p><p>Now, what if you see me hide behind a barrel? Well, if you SAW me try to hide, I automatically fail, because you can see me. But maybe I'm behind the barrel and out of your sight? You know roughly where I am, but you're unsure. If I pass the check, there's enough doubt in your mind that I'm hidden. In this case, maybe you think I used that barrel as a trick to get somewhere else. Or you're not entirely sure I ducked behind THAT barrel. </p><p></p><p>Unlike what Majoru said, I'd let a PC that's hidden behind a column stay hidden, even if a monster moves into line of sight of the PC. In this case, the PC has adjusted her position in relation to the monster's movement. This happens all the time in films - I'm thinking particularly of the scene in the first Jurassic Park, where Lex (or was it Tim?) is hiding from the Raptors, and constantly changing her position as the raptors move through the kitchen. </p><p></p><p>So, let's talk sneak attack. </p><p></p><p>I attack from hiding, and deal a buttload of sneak attack damage to you. I then move behind a column, and hide again as a bonus action. You know where I am (behind that column!) but you can't get somewhere to see me because I'm a ways away. So, you focus on something else. I pop up from hiding and snipe you, move back to my original hiding space, and hide again as a bonus action. Even though you knew roughly where I was, I still get sneak attack damage, because I was hidden up until the point where I took my shot. You could say this was because while you knew where I was, you weren't giving me full attention, and were a bit surprised exactly WHEN I popped up from hiding. </p><p></p><p>On your turn, you say "hell with this!", draw your crossbow, and ready an action to shoot when I reveal myself. I pop out from hiding and get ready to shoot. But you've got me covered, pull off a shot. Whether you hit or miss, you can now see me, so I wound't get to sneak attack you. </p><p></p><p>Ultimately, Defcon 1 is correct. the PC has spent a resource on getting this ability - there's little reason to prevent it from happening. If it's a big problem in your game, just remember that area attacks from monsters can really hurt a rogue - especially if they destroy cover as well as deal damage (which could well wind up being the secondary point).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wik, post: 6686224, member: 40177"] I feel the need to verify a few claims. Majoru is mostly right, though this "full cover" thing isn't exactly right. Basically, you can try to hide from someone when they can't see you. There is no "full cover" business. If it's pitch black, but you're in an open room, you can hide. If it's a smoky room, you can hide. If you're crouched behind a barrel, you can hide. The only requirement is that the guy you're hiding from cannot see you. After that, you make your check. You are hidden until you do something that changes that condition - usually attacking. But let's say I hide behind a column. If I move out from behind that column into the open, I might have to make another stealth check - with disadvantage, maybe - to avoid notice. Now, what if you see me hide behind a barrel? Well, if you SAW me try to hide, I automatically fail, because you can see me. But maybe I'm behind the barrel and out of your sight? You know roughly where I am, but you're unsure. If I pass the check, there's enough doubt in your mind that I'm hidden. In this case, maybe you think I used that barrel as a trick to get somewhere else. Or you're not entirely sure I ducked behind THAT barrel. Unlike what Majoru said, I'd let a PC that's hidden behind a column stay hidden, even if a monster moves into line of sight of the PC. In this case, the PC has adjusted her position in relation to the monster's movement. This happens all the time in films - I'm thinking particularly of the scene in the first Jurassic Park, where Lex (or was it Tim?) is hiding from the Raptors, and constantly changing her position as the raptors move through the kitchen. So, let's talk sneak attack. I attack from hiding, and deal a buttload of sneak attack damage to you. I then move behind a column, and hide again as a bonus action. You know where I am (behind that column!) but you can't get somewhere to see me because I'm a ways away. So, you focus on something else. I pop up from hiding and snipe you, move back to my original hiding space, and hide again as a bonus action. Even though you knew roughly where I was, I still get sneak attack damage, because I was hidden up until the point where I took my shot. You could say this was because while you knew where I was, you weren't giving me full attention, and were a bit surprised exactly WHEN I popped up from hiding. On your turn, you say "hell with this!", draw your crossbow, and ready an action to shoot when I reveal myself. I pop out from hiding and get ready to shoot. But you've got me covered, pull off a shot. Whether you hit or miss, you can now see me, so I wound't get to sneak attack you. Ultimately, Defcon 1 is correct. the PC has spent a resource on getting this ability - there's little reason to prevent it from happening. If it's a big problem in your game, just remember that area attacks from monsters can really hurt a rogue - especially if they destroy cover as well as deal damage (which could well wind up being the secondary point). [/QUOTE]
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