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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 6687544" data-attributes="member: 413">These threads come up periodically and there always seems to be two camps:  DMs who are averse to allowing the rogue to hide in combat and those that are pretty liberal about it.  I think it's a matter of taste really and as long as your table is good with it, it's good...I like that about the 5e stealth rules because it leaves wiggle room for the particular tastes of the table...if I were playing in a game run by a DM that says "no, you can't hide because the barrel is too obvious" rather than imposing adv/dis or other modifiers and giving me a chance to try, I'd likely choose not to play a rogue...that's okay with me...there are lots of other classes that are fun that don't have to ask the DM for permission to use their core abilities on a regular basis.But for me, I definitely fall into the more liberal camp.  As a DM, I _want_ my players to be able to use their PCs' kewl abilities.  A rogue using their cunning action to hide and gain advantage on their next attack (or avoid being targeted) is an important class feature, it isn't free (it costs them the chance to dash or disengage) and it isn't guaranteed to succeed (although for rogues with expertise it is often effectively guaranteed).  It's really not much different than the fighter's extra attacks, casters more powerful spells or the barbarian getting advantage and extra damage on pretty much every attack.  We don't try to make those classes justify the use of those abilities...they just happen.  The rogue's hiding ability is a bit more circumstantial but in general he should be able to pull it off once or twice a combat.  YMMV but at our table most combats take place in dark and confusing places with 10+ combatants.  To me, the rogue is the character that is adept at taking advantage of the confusion and fear that is a regular feature of combat so the base assumption is the rogue can find some place to hide.  It is extraordinary circumstances that would lead to the rogue being flat out unable to hide (the brightly lit featureless room and everyone is staring at the rogue and tracking his every move). Is it more difficult sometimes?  Sure. As someone alluded to up-thread, I really think Hiding/Stealth covers two very different circumstances.  Out combat hiding and subterfuge in combat.  The typical rogue is good at both so (to me) the stealth skill combined with hiding and cunning action encapsulates both.  Out of combat hiding is attempting to convince your target that you are not in the area at all.  He is completely unaware of you.  It is for scouting, spying, escaping and evading.  In combat stealth is not meant for that.  When the halfling "hides" behind the big fighter, of course the enemy is still aware of him.  It's just that the halfling has just caused the enemy to momentarily lose focus enough to allow him to gain advantage or make it impossible or more difficult to target him directly with an attack. If you want to make it harder for the rogue to hide, give him disadvantage.  If you want to make it even harder, give him disadvantage and give his target advantage.   A typical 5th level rogue with 18 dex, +3 prof and expertise in stealth will have a +10 in stealth...that's pretty hefty and a guaranteed success against a 10 Passive perception.  So give the target advantage which makes the target DC 15.  With disadvantage to the rogue, it's now about a 65% chance of success.  At our table, when the rogue announces she is hiding, she doesn't make her check then.  Instead, she makes the check when it matters such as when she emerges from hiding to target an enemy or on an enemy's turn.  If the enemy is aware of her it gets to make a perception roll against her stealth roll.  If the enemy is not aware of her at all then he gets only passive perception.  That accomplishes two things: 1) It allows me to allow her to use her cool ability without making it a practically guaranteed success all the time and 2) the more people she is trying to hide from the more difficult it is for her to hide from them all.  Different targets might have advantage or grant her disadvantage.  Whether or not the target was aware of/targeting her, the target's line of sight to her, what the target is currently doing all come into play.  It's far better than just saying 'no'.  Typically she hides once or twice a battle.  After that she usually has other more interesting things to do or the battle ends.Again, YMMV.</blockquote>

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