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Message: <blockquote data-quote="apesamongus" data-source="post: 2226108" data-attributes="member: 27703">Ooops.Well, actually, that's not true.  The rogue either needs to have or needs to emulate a Int 19, not a Cha 19.  A Sorc couldn't have made the scroll at CL 17.(come to think of it, if the rogue activates a staff, the CL is 8, or whatever that staff's minimum is, but what stat is the save DC set by? Or, for that matter, does a cleric using a staff of fire use Wis or Int/Cha as the relevant stat?)Looking at the specific skill description, "Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15."  The line "appropriate to the class you're trying to emulate" is interesting, because it seems at odds with the description under "Use a Wand".  "Use a Wand" says that you are trying to fake having a spell on your current class spell list (whatever that class may be) whereas "Emulate an ability score" implies that when using a scroll you are trying to fake being another class (that, presumably, already has the spell on it's class spell list).So, by that reading (of Emulate an ability score), if you had a Cha 19, you could emulate being a Sorc instead of a wizard and not need to make the second check, but the difficulty would still be based on CL 17 (the level of the scroll) even though a sorcerer could not have possibly made that particular scroll.Or better yet, if you take the two together, you're adding Wish to your Rogue spell list, so the relevant stat would be Dex.  Yea, I'm being facetious here, but the two different sections of the UWD skill which both apply only to using scrolls seems to follow different reasoning (emulating a class vs adding a spell to the class list) and it's not clear which is correct.Why?  Nowhere in the UMD skill description does it say that if you succeed you may activate the scroll.  "Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list."  Note the words "as if" and not "without any further requirements". The ability explicitly states that it acts the same as if it were on your spell list, it says nothing about increasing effective caster level.  Using a scroll has two requirements, and UMD only - explicitly - helps with one of them.</blockquote>

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