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Rogue with ranged weapon and standing from prone
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<blockquote data-quote="gamerprinter" data-source="post: 6130527" data-attributes="member: 50895"><p>Yes, but in 3.5 rogues were kind of exclusive in getting access to all the various 'rogue' skills like Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, etc. Two changes in PF skill system has marginalized rogues somewhat. One - by combining skills like Hide in Shadows and Move Silently to Stealth it's cheaper skill point wise for anybody not just the rogue to spend points in one skill than be forced to spend the same on mulitiple skills. Two - in 3.5 taking a skill that wasn't a class skill cost double, which really limited access to classes that didn't get 'rogue-based' skills and made it too expensive to waste skill points in doing so. However in Pathfinder, the difference in class skills is +3 modifier and it doesn't cost double for a fighter to choose Stealth to spend skill points.</p><p></p><p>While I definitely love the combined skill sets, and elimination of the double cost for non-class skills in Pathfinder, especially regarding non-rogue classes. This change has definitely taken some of the unique skill monkey aspects away from rogues, thus somewhat marginalizing them.</p><p></p><p>And while I can agree that being d8 instead of d6 gives rogues more hit points, d4 class HD is gone altogether, so rogues are still equivalent as a lower HD class, because all classes were improved with this change (except for Fighters and Barbarians of course, who didn't get an HD improvement). If your opponent is a monster, it might seem the rogue is better off, but often times your opponent is an NPC with class levels and not a monster at all, so the advantage is nullified since your opponent has better HD than it's 3.5 counterpart as well. Incidentally, PF monsters tend to be better too.</p><p></p><p>While I'm a fan of oriental based games - I am the primary developer of the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) as an imprint under Rite Publishing. The ninja by it's name and Ki pool may seem oriental, it's hardly a slight fluff change to call a ninja a spy or an assassin and altering Ki to some other more western styled power point pool. Ninja is just a word, but the PF class ninja needn't be oriental at all. It fits all kinds of stealth based concepts that doesn't have to be relegated to oriental settings only.</p><p></p><p>Right now there is someone in our current game that's playing a ninja, yet under the concept of being an elite spy and provocateur for a western based espionage organization. In no way is his character 'oriental', despite being a ninja.</p><p></p><p>YMMV of course.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gamerprinter, post: 6130527, member: 50895"] Yes, but in 3.5 rogues were kind of exclusive in getting access to all the various 'rogue' skills like Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, etc. Two changes in PF skill system has marginalized rogues somewhat. One - by combining skills like Hide in Shadows and Move Silently to Stealth it's cheaper skill point wise for anybody not just the rogue to spend points in one skill than be forced to spend the same on mulitiple skills. Two - in 3.5 taking a skill that wasn't a class skill cost double, which really limited access to classes that didn't get 'rogue-based' skills and made it too expensive to waste skill points in doing so. However in Pathfinder, the difference in class skills is +3 modifier and it doesn't cost double for a fighter to choose Stealth to spend skill points. While I definitely love the combined skill sets, and elimination of the double cost for non-class skills in Pathfinder, especially regarding non-rogue classes. This change has definitely taken some of the unique skill monkey aspects away from rogues, thus somewhat marginalizing them. And while I can agree that being d8 instead of d6 gives rogues more hit points, d4 class HD is gone altogether, so rogues are still equivalent as a lower HD class, because all classes were improved with this change (except for Fighters and Barbarians of course, who didn't get an HD improvement). If your opponent is a monster, it might seem the rogue is better off, but often times your opponent is an NPC with class levels and not a monster at all, so the advantage is nullified since your opponent has better HD than it's 3.5 counterpart as well. Incidentally, PF monsters tend to be better too. While I'm a fan of oriental based games - I am the primary developer of the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) as an imprint under Rite Publishing. The ninja by it's name and Ki pool may seem oriental, it's hardly a slight fluff change to call a ninja a spy or an assassin and altering Ki to some other more western styled power point pool. Ninja is just a word, but the PF class ninja needn't be oriental at all. It fits all kinds of stealth based concepts that doesn't have to be relegated to oriental settings only. Right now there is someone in our current game that's playing a ninja, yet under the concept of being an elite spy and provocateur for a western based espionage organization. In no way is his character 'oriental', despite being a ninja. YMMV of course. [/QUOTE]
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Rogue with ranged weapon and standing from prone
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