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Rogues and Sneak Attack
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<blockquote data-quote="Larrin" data-source="post: 6039210" data-attributes="member: 55816"><p>Fix of least effort: At the very least I would think a "expertise dice spent +1d6 dmg" would be in line (probably removing the 'flanking' trigger). They've jumped through an extra hoop to use the maneuver, they get an extra die over a comparable maneuver (deadly strike). </p><p></p><p>Granted, you don't need to take sneak attack, but on some level that feels like "you don't need to be notable/relevent in battle. Ever." </p><p></p><p>I think the equation "need for advantage + smaller weapons (on average)+squishy-why-am-I-in-melee = not even keeping up with the fighter" isn't justified. </p><p></p><p>And that brings up an important design point. While wizards and clerics do similar basic damage, they have some "kaboom" up their sleeves, and at the right time they'll 'Searing Light' a wight or 'Fire Ball' a whole room, then they outshine the fighter for a round and people will talk about it. This rogue has no such hope. With his best damage maneuver he can say "Ta-Daa, this round I'm almost as good as the fighter" I'm fine with the rogue being less good than a fighter in combat most rounds (that was present previously), but he needs a time to shine. In my opinion that time should come up more often than for wizards or clerics.</p><p></p><p>For example: The fighter should be worse at skills and avoiding stuff (which rogue maneuvers handle nicely, i'd say) but there will be a time when a rock needs moving, or door needs kicking, or 20 pts of damage needs to go to someone. Then the fighter gets to pat the rogue on the back and say "Don't worry, I got this" and do some skillz better than the rogue.</p><p></p><p>Bottom line: Sneak attack (or something) should high-light that sometimes a rogue is what you need/benefit-most-from in a fight (just as sometimes you 'need' a cleric and sometimes you 'need' a wizard). Currently, you never 'need' a rogue in fight. I feel this is wrong.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Larrin, post: 6039210, member: 55816"] Fix of least effort: At the very least I would think a "expertise dice spent +1d6 dmg" would be in line (probably removing the 'flanking' trigger). They've jumped through an extra hoop to use the maneuver, they get an extra die over a comparable maneuver (deadly strike). Granted, you don't need to take sneak attack, but on some level that feels like "you don't need to be notable/relevent in battle. Ever." I think the equation "need for advantage + smaller weapons (on average)+squishy-why-am-I-in-melee = not even keeping up with the fighter" isn't justified. And that brings up an important design point. While wizards and clerics do similar basic damage, they have some "kaboom" up their sleeves, and at the right time they'll 'Searing Light' a wight or 'Fire Ball' a whole room, then they outshine the fighter for a round and people will talk about it. This rogue has no such hope. With his best damage maneuver he can say "Ta-Daa, this round I'm almost as good as the fighter" I'm fine with the rogue being less good than a fighter in combat most rounds (that was present previously), but he needs a time to shine. In my opinion that time should come up more often than for wizards or clerics. For example: The fighter should be worse at skills and avoiding stuff (which rogue maneuvers handle nicely, i'd say) but there will be a time when a rock needs moving, or door needs kicking, or 20 pts of damage needs to go to someone. Then the fighter gets to pat the rogue on the back and say "Don't worry, I got this" and do some skillz better than the rogue. Bottom line: Sneak attack (or something) should high-light that sometimes a rogue is what you need/benefit-most-from in a fight (just as sometimes you 'need' a cleric and sometimes you 'need' a wizard). Currently, you never 'need' a rogue in fight. I feel this is wrong. [/QUOTE]
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