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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Caliban" data-source="post: 1625968" data-attributes="member: 284">That's a physical device. It can be disabled whether or not it's a "trap" or an "alarm". I don't think it's relevent to this discussion. I have never said anything different.  I wasn't aware of an actual list of spell traps. Just several spells that specifically identify themselves as magic traps, and of those that identify themselves as magical traps, they seem to have certain qualities in common, qualities that the alarm spell doesn't share (see below).  Ok, I'll bite. How do you defeat an alarm spell without magic? (Unless you mean "knowing the password", which I wouldn't count as "defeating" the alarm spell.) Could you explain your logic on this one? Because I don't see this contradiction. My main point is this:  All the spells that identify themselves as magical traps have a physical component to them (with the possible exception of Fire Trap). The Alarm spell does not. (For me this is the main point, and what made me start looking at it more closely.) All the spells that identify themselves as magical traps directly affect whoever triggers it (they blow you up, they trap you, they cast a spell on you, they inflict a status effect on you, etc.) An alarm spell doesn't do any of this. An alarm spell has no effect at all on whoever triggers it. It's just a sensor that makes a noise when it detects something. It doesn't "catch" you. (Whatever responds to the alarm can "discover" or "catch" or "harm" you.) So the Alarm spell is different in two ways from all the spells that we know are magical traps. There are spells that count as magical traps but don't identify themselves as such in the spell description (Sepia Snake Sigil is one), but they should match up to the other aspects of the known trap spells.  In general, if the spell doesn't identify itself as a magical trap, then it probably isn't (with certain exceptions, just like everything else in 3.5).  I simply don't buy the theory that any spell that has a "trigger condition" should count as a magical trap.  In a home game, my rule would be "any triggered spell with a physical component is a valid target for Disable Device" (and even that would probably have exceptions), because that is consistent and makes sens. But that is neither here nor there. Now I need to get some sleep.  It's been a long weekend for me,  I've played in 5 RPGA modules over the last three days (in addition to posting on this thread when I have time) to prepare judges to to run games at Hexacon 14.</blockquote>

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