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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8376515" data-attributes="member: 16814">Ah, the way I play is dumb.&nbsp; Interesting argument.Maybe, and here's an idea, I don't imagine monsters and PCs as radar systems but as creatures dealing with combat such that they pit their skill (perception) against their foes skill (stealth) to see who triumphs?&nbsp; That I don't start with, &quot;the troll maintains a laser focus on the pillar you're behind, Bob the Rogue, such that even if you peek, it will 100% see ypu immediately.&nbsp; Same goes for you, Bob2 the Ranger, behind that other pillar.&nbsp; Meanwhile, he's dialed into you, Bob3 the Fighter, and leaves no opening&nbsp; in your melee, or even you, Bob4 the Wizard, waiting to dodge out of the way of your spells!&quot;Instead, I note that the troll already has a score for it's alertness which is it's passive perception.&nbsp; And that the contest to see if the PC can get the drop on the troll is going to be a contest, much like attack roll vs AC (the troll doesn't want to be hit, either), and so that determines what happens.&nbsp; If the troll beats the PC, then the troll sees the PC as the PC attacks, and isn't caught off guard.&nbsp; If the PC wins, then the troll was distracted momentarily by something else, or was looking to the right of the pillar when the PC rolls out low on the left, or blinks.&nbsp; Whatever.&nbsp; The PC gets the drop on the troll.&nbsp; In other words, I don't pretell the story and then get mad the mechanics tell me a different one and so change the way the mechanics work.Alert is represented by passive perception, not by a mythical FLIR system welded to every creature's head.&nbsp; Being alert doesn't mean you're foolproof.&nbsp; Geez, that one sentence is the cause of so much GM nerfbatting rogues or other sneaky PCs.&nbsp; It's ridonkulous.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8376515, member: 16814"] Ah, the way I play is dumb. Interesting argument. Maybe, and here's an idea, I don't imagine monsters and PCs as radar systems but as creatures dealing with combat such that they pit their skill (perception) against their foes skill (stealth) to see who triumphs? That I don't start with, "the troll maintains a laser focus on the pillar you're behind, Bob the Rogue, such that even if you peek, it will 100% see ypu immediately. Same goes for you, Bob2 the Ranger, behind that other pillar. Meanwhile, he's dialed into you, Bob3 the Fighter, and leaves no opening in your melee, or even you, Bob4 the Wizard, waiting to dodge out of the way of your spells!" Instead, I note that the troll already has a score for it's alertness which is it's passive perception. And that the contest to see if the PC can get the drop on the troll is going to be a contest, much like attack roll vs AC (the troll doesn't want to be hit, either), and so that determines what happens. If the troll beats the PC, then the troll sees the PC as the PC attacks, and isn't caught off guard. If the PC wins, then the troll was distracted momentarily by something else, or was looking to the right of the pillar when the PC rolls out low on the left, or blinks. Whatever. The PC gets the drop on the troll. In other words, I don't pretell the story and then get mad the mechanics tell me a different one and so change the way the mechanics work. Alert is represented by passive perception, not by a mythical FLIR system welded to every creature's head. Being alert doesn't mean you're foolproof. Geez, that one sentence is the cause of so much GM nerfbatting rogues or other sneaky PCs. It's ridonkulous. [/QUOTE]

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