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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8376560" data-attributes="member: 6801845">My thoughts on this?First, D&amp;D combat is not particularly realistic.&nbsp; It's assumed that everyone is paying attention to every other attacking creature.&nbsp; That troll being attacked by 6 PCs?&nbsp; If that troll has an ogre buddy next to him so either one of them could be targeted?&nbsp; If no one is hidden while attacking, barring other special circumstances, no one gets advantage on it.&nbsp; No flanking, he notices the sharpshooter archer 600 ft away launching an arrow and the guy swinging a sword at his face and the guy behind him trying to bash their head in from behind with a hammer.&nbsp; Not to mention the other 3 doing whatever attacks their doing whether with magic like scorching ray or any other attack.To say that's not particularly realistic is kind of an understatement.If the wizard cast improved invisibility on the barbarian, the barbarian gets advantage.&nbsp; Not because the barbarian isn't screaming his battle cry, not because they are hidden, but because until the troll feels that axe biting in, they had no way of knowing it was coming. Even though they knew exactly where the barbarian was.So when it comes to that hidden rogue, it just depends on how the DM wants to run it.&nbsp;&nbsp; If a rogue is hidden behind a pillar, I'm going to assume the rogue doesn't have special missiles that phase through the column.&nbsp; They don't have X-Ray vision.&nbsp; They don't have magic guided arrows that curve around the pillar. They have to physically be able to see the troll, take a moment to aim, time it so they aren't going to hit an ally and fire.&nbsp; It's not instantaneous.&nbsp; Assuming the troll knew the rogue was behind the pillar he has about as much time to see and react he would have had with the archer that was in plain sight that decided to shift targets from his ogre buddy to him.&nbsp; It's not that he necessarily knew or saw that the archer was changing targets, it's because he knew the archer was there and was a threat.&nbsp; The troll knows where the rogue is and that they will be a threat.A more realistic system would distinguish between physical armor blocking attacks and dextrously avoiding attacks because you see the attack coming, but that's not D&amp;D.&nbsp; In my game, if you know an attacker is there and can clearly see them when they attack, there is no advantage on the attack.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8376560, member: 6801845"] My thoughts on this? First, D&D combat is not particularly realistic. It's assumed that everyone is paying attention to every other attacking creature. That troll being attacked by 6 PCs? If that troll has an ogre buddy next to him so either one of them could be targeted? If no one is hidden while attacking, barring other special circumstances, no one gets advantage on it. No flanking, he notices the sharpshooter archer 600 ft away launching an arrow and the guy swinging a sword at his face and the guy behind him trying to bash their head in from behind with a hammer. Not to mention the other 3 doing whatever attacks their doing whether with magic like scorching ray or any other attack. To say that's not particularly realistic is kind of an understatement. If the wizard cast improved invisibility on the barbarian, the barbarian gets advantage. Not because the barbarian isn't screaming his battle cry, not because they are hidden, but because until the troll feels that axe biting in, they had no way of knowing it was coming. Even though they knew exactly where the barbarian was. So when it comes to that hidden rogue, it just depends on how the DM wants to run it. If a rogue is hidden behind a pillar, I'm going to assume the rogue doesn't have special missiles that phase through the column. They don't have X-Ray vision. They don't have magic guided arrows that curve around the pillar. They have to physically be able to see the troll, take a moment to aim, time it so they aren't going to hit an ally and fire. It's [I]not [/I]instantaneous. Assuming the troll knew the rogue was behind the pillar he has about as much time to see and react he would have had with the archer that was in plain sight that decided to shift targets from his ogre buddy to him. It's not that he necessarily knew or saw that the archer was changing targets, it's because he knew the archer was there and was a threat. The troll knows where the rogue is and that they will be a threat. A more realistic system would distinguish between physical armor blocking attacks and dextrously avoiding attacks because you see the attack coming, but that's not D&D. In my game, if you know an attacker is there and can clearly see them [I]when they attack[/I], there is no advantage on the attack. [/QUOTE]

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