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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Marnak" data-source="post: 3590086" data-attributes="member: 24886">Sacred Cow that Needs HelpI believe that the rogue is a sacred cow but not an essential class in 3.5e.  The things that the rogue does well can be done by other classes or aren't essential for party success.1.  Rogues are skill monkeys it is true but if a four person party is built well the rogue isn't missed.  Here is a quick example of the top of my head.Dwarven Ranger (Spot, Search, Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, Survival)Human Barbarian (Listen, Climb, Jump, Swim, Cross-Class Tumble)Human Wizard (Cross-Class Spot, Spellcraft, Concentration, Decipher Script)Human Druid (Spot, Handle Animal, Heal, Diplomacy)Note:  If you wanted more of a "face" to the party, you could add Bard or Paladin instead of ranger or barbarian.2.  Rogues have trapfinding.  This is true but a dwarven ranger with search gets around this underground.  Still, this may be the most essential rogue skill that you give up when you abandon the rogue.  Of course, you can get this ability if you take just one level of rogue and move on to some other class like ranger.3.  Rogues have sneak attack.  Yes, but this ability as others on this thread have said can be nerfed in a number of encounters.  I like sneak attack and think it is a cool abilityt, but I don't think it makes a rogue essential to a party.As Kunimatyu wrote, I think the problem is with the mechanics of 3.5e.  I think the rogue is a sacred cow that should be revisited in 4e so that he again assumes a role of importance comparable to that of fighters, wizards, and clerics.  I think that using the "Expert" from True20 or Unearthed Arcana would be an improvement in that direction, though I continue to think about more radical changes that would help the rogue in combat because I believe what Kaomera wrote about the importance of combat in 3.5e.  Some of these thoughts are posted under "house rules" at the thread Pick Axe linked to at the top.</blockquote>

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