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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pickaxe" data-source="post: 3592054" data-attributes="member: 10812">Rogues and the players who love themThis thread is not about whether playing rogues is enjoyable. Certainly, some players enjoy playing them a lot.Nor is it about whether rogues do anything worthwhile in a party. It's easy to convince me that they do.Nor is it about whether they have a place in D&D iconography. The thief or rogue class has been in D&D for almost as long as the game has been around.What I'm really asking is whether the rogue archetype(s) is/are such an integral part of the fantasy genre that if you removed the rogue class you'd severely compromise the game's ability to express the genre.In other words, if you simply subtracted the rogue (or any class), players might complain because a) the rogue is necessary for party function, b) rogues are a traditional part of D&D (i.e., sacred cow), or c) the game's rogue class uniquely represents archetypes that are an indispensible part of the fantasy genre, sine qua non. What I want to know is how many people would complain because of "c"?That's not quite what I'm asking. Rather, if someone did what is suggested above would we a) be fine with it, as long as we can still build well-rounded parties, b) not be fine with it, because the class in question has "always" been part of D&D, or c) not be fine with it, because some fantasy archetype can no longer be played?We might find ourselves simply agreeing to disagree, but let me at least address your argument. I agree that the knight fits the fighter, but I think there are far more archetypes that fit as well. Achilles, Heracles, Odysseus, Arjuna, Boromir, Beowulf, among others all strike me as characterized by fighting skill (though in different ways), in a way that suggests nothing of the paladin, barbarian, or ranger, and certainly no other class would fit. They seem like some of the archetypal characters for which the fighter class ultimately exists.On the other hand, though I'm sure the rogue makes a fine "dashing scoundrel," I can't think of anything that sets this class apart from the others in its ability to capture this particular persona. I suppose I could be convinced if dashing scoundrels were all about the skills, but I don't see this myself, and, even if it were true, I don't see that other classes wouldn't have sufficient skills and skill points to be just as dashing and scoundrelly.--Axe</blockquote>

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