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<blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 3593195" data-attributes="member: 30001">Well we'd have to use my &quot;definition&quot; wouldn't we?&nbsp; Why not use yours?&nbsp; Even so, mine seems inadequate (which would explain why I never intended it to be a definition) because it doesn't clearly distinguish between DnD and a Hildebrant painting of a dragon, for instance.&nbsp; You're &quot;thin fantasy disguise&quot; statement also seems to be hinting at some idea I can't quite identify.&nbsp; Disguise is somewhat charged language that implies some motive - but I can't figure out what that is.&nbsp; I don't see any clear reason to suppose that any DnD game designer has been trying to &quot;disguise&quot; anything.&nbsp; Besides, how &quot;thin&quot; is the diguise of a fighter who kills a dragon with a sword?&nbsp; What isn't fantasy about DnD?&nbsp; &nbsp; The core activity of DnD is the dungeon crawl, which has it's foundation firmly in wargaming and NOT in fantasy literature.&nbsp; If DnD is supposed to model literature, then what literature?&nbsp; All possible fantasy?&nbsp; And why are there so many more &quot;dungeons&quot; in DnD than there are in books?&nbsp; Finally - I think one of the huge factors missing in your reasoning of &quot;DnD as model of literature&quot; idea is that DnD is a game, and as such there are certain &quot;game issues&quot; to take into account.&nbsp; For example, although &quot;side kick&quot; is an archetype in literature, most people who play DnD don't want to play one.&nbsp; &quot;Playable&quot; is something that DnD has to take into account that's not present in literature - another reason why my definition would be insufficient.&nbsp; You wouldn't be able to simulate any story that has only a single main protagonist - and there are plenty of those in the fantasy genre.Also, DnD is a resource management game (natural outgrowth of wargame, NOT story-based game) and so certain things that work nice in literature (ex. Conan not wearing armor during a particular adventure) doesn't work out quite as well when you don't have writer's license to fall back on.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="gizmo33, post: 3593195, member: 30001"] Well we'd have to use my "definition" wouldn't we? Why not use yours? Even so, mine seems inadequate (which would explain why I never intended it to be a definition) because it doesn't clearly distinguish between DnD and a Hildebrant painting of a dragon, for instance. You're "thin fantasy disguise" statement also seems to be hinting at some idea I can't quite identify. Disguise is somewhat charged language that implies some motive - but I can't figure out what that is. I don't see any clear reason to suppose that any DnD game designer has been trying to "disguise" anything. Besides, how "thin" is the diguise of a fighter who kills a dragon with a sword? What isn't fantasy about DnD? The core activity of DnD is the dungeon crawl, which has it's foundation firmly in wargaming and NOT in fantasy literature. If DnD [i]is[/i] supposed to model literature, then what literature? All possible fantasy? And why are there so many more "dungeons" in DnD than there are in books? Finally - I think one of the huge factors missing in your reasoning of "DnD as model of literature" idea is that DnD is a game, and as such there are certain "game issues" to take into account. For example, although "side kick" is an archetype in literature, most people who play DnD don't want to play one. "Playable" is something that DnD has to take into account that's not present in literature - another reason why my definition would be insufficient. You wouldn't be able to simulate any story that has only a single main protagonist - and there are plenty of those in the fantasy genre. Also, DnD is a resource management game (natural outgrowth of wargame, NOT story-based game) and so certain things that work nice in literature (ex. Conan not wearing armor during a particular adventure) doesn't work out quite as well when you don't have writer's license to fall back on. [/QUOTE]

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