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<blockquote data-quote="Urbannen" data-source="post: 1478394" data-attributes="member: 7643">As has been said, Spot and Search don't make sense, for a whole of of reasons I've listed below*.&nbsp; This leads me to believe that a solution to the problem of the slow-going rogue is to abolish the Search skill:&nbsp; -Characters use Spot to find traps and secret doors.&nbsp; -When a PC looks for an object inside a container, such as a chest, what he finds will depend on the actions he describes his character performing.&nbsp; In other words, if a wand is hidden under a blanket in a chest and a player says his PC looks under the blanket, then the PC finds the wand.&nbsp; &nbsp; -Increase the DC of all Spot checks to find secret doors and traps by 5.&nbsp; &nbsp; -Characters get a +5 bonus when actively using the Spot skill.&nbsp; At the DMs discretion, this +5 may only be used when within 5' and includes physical manipulation, such as knocking or prying.&nbsp; -Elves get a +5 racial bonus to Spot secret doors that does not stack with their general +2 racial bonus to Spot.&nbsp; &nbsp; -Only rogues can Spot traps with DCs of 25 or higher.&nbsp; Getting rid of Search means that rogues can walk down the hallway without having to spend 6 seconds every 5 feet.&nbsp; Their chance of finding the trap won't be as good as if they took the extra time, but at least they would have a chance.&nbsp; It only makes sense that there would be discrete visual clues to hidden traps and doors that extremely alert characters might see.&nbsp; OR you could give rogues the class ability to automatically have a chance to detect secret doors and traps when passing within 5 feet of them, thus keeping the skill system the same but drastically speeding up game play.&nbsp; *Why Search doesn't make senseIn order to actively visually search an area closer than 10', you use Search.&nbsp; In order to actively visually search an area farther away than 10', you use Spot.&nbsp; In theory Spot is always passive, but it's really not.&nbsp; Spot is theoretically Wisdom based because it is passive, and Search is Intelligence based because it is active.&nbsp; However, if you make an active Listen check, say by listening at a door, you use Wisdom as the modifier.&nbsp; Additionally if you are actively tracking, you use Wisdom as a modifier.&nbsp; Wisdom can be used to modify active skill use.&nbsp; In theory you can use Search to find a trap without setting it off, implying that Search is entirely visual and requires no touch, at least when searching for traps.&nbsp; However, you cannot Spot a trap, even though you can find it with a completely visual scan.&nbsp; Even though Search is supposedly active, elves can use it passively to essentially Spot secret doors.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Urbannen, post: 1478394, member: 7643"] As has been said, Spot and Search don't make sense, for a whole of of reasons I've listed below*. This leads me to believe that a solution to the problem of the slow-going rogue is to abolish the Search skill: -Characters use Spot to find traps and secret doors. -When a PC looks for an object inside a container, such as a chest, what he finds will depend on the actions he describes his character performing. In other words, if a wand is hidden under a blanket in a chest and a player says his PC looks under the blanket, then the PC finds the wand. -Increase the DC of all Spot checks to find secret doors and traps by 5. -Characters get a +5 bonus when actively using the Spot skill. At the DMs discretion, this +5 may only be used when within 5' and includes physical manipulation, such as knocking or prying. -Elves get a +5 racial bonus to Spot secret doors that does not stack with their general +2 racial bonus to Spot. -Only rogues can Spot traps with DCs of 25 or higher. Getting rid of Search means that rogues [b]can[/b] walk down the hallway without having to spend 6 seconds every 5 feet. Their chance of finding the trap won't be as good as if they took the extra time, but at least they would have a chance. It only makes sense that there would be discrete visual clues to hidden traps and doors that extremely alert characters might see. OR you could give rogues the class ability to automatically have a chance to detect secret doors and traps when passing within 5 feet of them, thus keeping the skill system the same but drastically speeding up game play. *[b]Why Search doesn't make sense[/b] In order to actively visually search an area closer than 10', you use Search. In order to actively visually search an area farther away than 10', you use Spot. In theory Spot is always passive, but it's really not. Spot is theoretically Wisdom based because it is passive, and Search is Intelligence based because it is active. However, if you make an active Listen check, say by listening at a door, you use Wisdom as the modifier. Additionally if you are actively tracking, you use Wisdom as a modifier. Wisdom can be used to modify active skill use. In theory you can use Search to find a trap without setting it off, implying that Search is entirely visual and requires no touch, at least when searching for traps. However, you cannot Spot a trap, even though you can find it with a completely visual scan. Even though Search is supposedly active, elves can use it passively to essentially Spot secret doors. [/QUOTE]

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