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<blockquote data-quote="Urbannen" data-source="post: 1480629" data-attributes="member: 7643">Even if the DM rolls the Search/Spot check to search for traps (which is completely appropriate), the party is still wasting huge amounts of game time taking their 10s and 20s while searching every single square space for traps.Searching for traps seems to be a completely visual activity.&nbsp; We know this because there is no penalty for failure.&nbsp; If finding a trap also required touching or prodding the target area, then there would have to be a chance the trap could go off.&nbsp; Since there is no chance of this happening, it really must be visual. The visual clues that tell a rogue that a trap is present are the same whether he is close to the trap, far away from the trap, actively searching, or passing casually by.&nbsp; The slightly extended stone that's actually a pressure plate, the trace of burn from a fireball trap, the glyph that should really be visible to anyone - a rogue passing casually by would see these things, or have a chance to see them.&nbsp; Why does he have to spend 6 seconds just for his brain to register, &quot;Oh, a trap!&quot;&nbsp; But wait, I'm wrong, Search is not a completely visual activity, since according to the rules you can make Search checks while blind with a mere -4 to the check.&nbsp; While blind and groping around in darkness, you can search for a glyph of warding and find it but not set it off.&nbsp; While blind you can find a pressure plate and not set off the accompanying pit trap.&nbsp; How, umm, well, I wish I could say &quot;realistic&quot;, but I can't.&nbsp; The Search skill mechanic is badly conceived and its game functions could easily be subsumed by other skills, namely Spot and Disable Device.&nbsp; Either that or it could be redefined to apply to all active uses of the senses, including active Listen checks, and be usable from a distance and as a move action.&nbsp; Thus redefined, a rogue could move at half speed and say &quot;I'm looking around for signs of traps,&quot; and get a check for any space he can visually detect, with penalties for distances.&nbsp; Hmm, actually, I like that solution quite a bit.&nbsp; That way we keep a sacred cow, the Search Skill, but parties can make decent progress through dungeons at half movement (which is as fast as they should be moving anyway), but not missing traps.&nbsp; You can &quot;search&quot; the horizon, which right now entails a Spot check, even though the activity is the same as a Search check, just farther away.&nbsp; Hmm.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Urbannen, post: 1480629, member: 7643"] Even if the DM rolls the Search/Spot check to search for traps (which is completely appropriate), the party is still wasting huge amounts of game time taking their 10s and 20s while searching every single square space for traps. Searching for traps seems to be a completely visual activity. We know this because there is no penalty for failure. If finding a trap also required touching or prodding the target area, then there would have to be a chance the trap could go off. Since there is no chance of this happening, it really must be visual. The visual clues that tell a rogue that a trap is present are the same whether he is close to the trap, far away from the trap, actively searching, or passing casually by. The slightly extended stone that's actually a pressure plate, the trace of burn from a fireball trap, the glyph that should really be visible to anyone - a rogue passing casually by would see these things, or have a chance to see them. Why does he have to spend 6 seconds just for his brain to register, "Oh, a trap!" But wait, I'm wrong, Search is not a completely visual activity, since according to the rules you can make Search checks while blind with a mere -4 to the check. While blind and groping around in darkness, you can search for a [i]glyph of warding[/i] and find it but [b]not set it off[/b]. While blind you can find a pressure plate and not set off the accompanying pit trap. How, umm, well, I wish I could say "realistic", but I can't. The Search skill mechanic is badly conceived and its game functions could easily be subsumed by other skills, namely Spot and Disable Device. Either that or it could be redefined to apply to all active uses of the senses, including active Listen checks, and be usable from a distance and as a move action. Thus redefined, a rogue could move at half speed and say "I'm looking around for signs of traps," and get a check for any space he can visually detect, with penalties for distances. Hmm, actually, I like that solution quite a bit. That way we keep a sacred cow, the Search Skill, but parties can make decent progress through dungeons at half movement (which is as fast as they should be moving anyway), but not missing traps. You can "search" the horizon, which right now entails a Spot check, even though the activity is the same as a Search check, just farther away. Hmm. [/QUOTE]

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