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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6876857" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!For me, as soon as a &quot;sneaky rogue&quot; gets within the darkvision range of monsters, he's seen. Period. The rogue has nothing to &quot;hide behind/in/around&quot; to not be seen (that whole &quot;can't be seen&quot; part of the Stealth rules). If there are no shadows playing around because of a light source, then everything is &quot;seeable&quot;. The reason people have a hard time spotting something lurking in the shadows isn't because the shadows are darker...it's because the light is lighter...and causing their pupils to dilate...taking in less light to protect itself...making sneaky thief types much harder to spot. Take away that, and you have wide open pupils taking in any and every little movement they detect...e.g., a 'darkvisioned thief' sneaking down a darkened corridor.At best, I allow a thief without actual &quot;shadows&quot; to hide/move in to make his Stealth checks at Disadvantage. Yes, this means that in my campaigns, parties are better off with torches and lanterns then without. Sure, monsters will see them coming a mile away...but those monsters may not see the sneaky types...and sometimes (often, actually) this can make ALL the difference in the world.What does this mean in my campaign world? It means that snaeking around in the dark is likely to get the sneaker killed. It also means that a creature with darkvision is at a nice advantage when sneaking around areas where other creatures without darkvision, are (e.g., a drow assassin sneaking into a human castle to kill the king and queen). Once the deed is done, or he is detected, he can just run off into the darkness and not worry; the humans (or whatever) will have to be toting light sources...making it rather easy for the darkvision'ed thief to just avoid them at a distance. But a drow trying to sneak down a totally unlit cavern in the underdark to try and assassinate a drow noble in his castle? ... ...very dangerous...^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pming, post: 6876857, member: 45197"] Hiya! For me, as soon as a "sneaky rogue" gets within the darkvision range of monsters, he's seen. Period. The rogue has nothing to "hide behind/in/around" to [I]not[/I] be seen (that whole "can't be seen" part of the Stealth rules). If there are no shadows playing around because of a light source, then everything is "seeable". The reason people have a hard time spotting something lurking in the shadows isn't because the shadows are darker...it's because the light is lighter...and causing their pupils to dilate...taking in less light to protect itself...making sneaky thief types much harder to spot. Take away that, and you have wide open pupils taking in any and every little movement they detect...e.g., a 'darkvisioned thief' sneaking down a darkened corridor. At [I]best[/I], I allow a thief without actual "shadows" to hide/move in to make his Stealth checks at Disadvantage. Yes, this means that in my campaigns, parties are better off with torches and lanterns then without. Sure, monsters will see them coming a mile away...but those monsters may not see the sneaky types...and sometimes (often, actually) this can make ALL the difference in the world. What does this mean in my campaign world? It means that snaeking around in the dark is likely to get the sneaker killed. It also means that a creature with darkvision is at a nice advantage when sneaking around areas where other creatures without darkvision, are (e.g., a drow assassin sneaking into a human castle to kill the king and queen). Once the deed is done, or he is detected, he can just run off into the darkness and not worry; the humans (or whatever) will have to be toting light sources...making it rather easy for the darkvision'ed thief to just avoid them at a distance. But a drow trying to sneak down a totally unlit cavern in the underdark to try and assassinate a drow noble in his castle? ... ...very dangerous... ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]

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