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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6879049" data-attributes="member: 12731">What I really miss from the Rogue class is:* Clear incentive for the character to join in melee.* A clear and concise mechanism for involving stealth in getting Sneak Attack.That is:This simply means the game should keep the icing of the rogue cake for melee rogues. If you stay at range, you expose yourself to less risk, and less risk should mean less reward. Or, to be honest, the 5E Rogue is probably balanced as it appears RAW: as a ranged combatant with little reason to actively seek melee. So a melee rogue could probably get a little extra. My ideal Rogue class is still clearly designed around the realization it needs a good shot at Sneak damage every round of every fight, so my ideal sneak-and-sneak rules would probably mean a Rogue that gets to attack and hide each round, with a meaningful benefit of doing so. Meaning: a benefit that revolves around getting Sneak Attack. (Not hiding to get out of the crosshairs of the monsters. Since the monsters can - presumably - simply switch their attacks to another party member, this is actually not that great a net benefit for the party as a whole).Perhaps something that for ranged rogues require terrain, but for melee rogues only require feinting. If you risk being a melee rogue, you get in your sneak attacks by simply making a Feint skill check vs the monster's perception (or insight etc). Once you've made your check, your sneak attacks are assured for the rest of that fight against that monster.Ranged rogues with no place to hide are SOL. Something like that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6879049, member: 12731"] What I really miss from the Rogue class is: * Clear incentive for the character to join in melee. * A clear and concise mechanism for involving stealth in getting Sneak Attack. That is: This simply means the game should keep the icing of the rogue cake for melee rogues. If you stay at range, you expose yourself to less risk, and less risk should mean less reward. Or, to be honest, the 5E Rogue is probably balanced as it appears RAW: as a ranged combatant with little reason to actively seek melee. So a melee rogue could probably get a little extra. My ideal Rogue class is still clearly designed around the realization it needs a good shot at Sneak damage every round of every fight, so my ideal sneak-and-sneak rules would probably mean a Rogue that gets to attack and hide each round, with a meaningful benefit of doing so. Meaning: a benefit that revolves around getting Sneak Attack. (Not hiding to get out of the crosshairs of the monsters. Since the monsters can - presumably - simply switch their attacks to another party member, this is actually not that great a net benefit for the party as a whole). Perhaps something that for ranged rogues require terrain, but for melee rogues only require feinting. If you risk being a melee rogue, you get in your sneak attacks by simply making a Feint skill check vs the monster's perception (or insight etc). Once you've made your check, your sneak attacks are assured for the rest of that fight against that monster. Ranged rogues with no place to hide are SOL. Something like that. [/QUOTE]

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