NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6962569" data-attributes="member: 42582">Saelorn, I share your sense of contrast.You can also see this contrast playing out in concrete ways - look at the complaints from many more hardcore players about the encounter difficulty guidelines in 5e. Another way of making sense of that is that 5e doesn't really emphasise skilled play. (And hence won't actually see too many parties cripsed by dragons.) Rather, it emphasises the experience of "being there", in the story, and the mechanics (including the combat mechanics) are as much devices for working out the details of what happens while the PCs are there, as for allowing the players to "win" by using them well.I don't think that what you describe is the kernel, though. The  mutual enjoyment of "wargamers" isn't in the shared and mutually created story - it's in beating the dungeon!Look at the actual play reports from the G-series tournament, for instance. The winners of that tournament weren't primarily enjoying the story, they were enjoying being bloody good wargamers! Here's an extract (from Dragon 19, reporting the 1978 Origins tournament):[sblock]As the fight before the king proceeded with little damage to either side, the ballista crew managed to reload. Three blasts from the cold wand while they were leading, however, killed them before they could fire. While the battle continued, our earth elemental sprang into being and began moving towards the hell hounds surrounding the king. When the six giants showed signs of weakening, we noticed that the female giants began preparing to enter the battle. At this point, the ranger and MU who were in the process of turning the ballista against the king and giants called out a warning of another group of hell hounds and giants approaching from our rear. The thief began climbing the wall at his unhasted speed and moving across the ceiling to position himself over the king. On the first part of the next melee round the elf/ fighter/ MU killed her giant and turned to cast a slow spell on the group coming up on our rear. The ranger then fired the ballista and with great skill(?) struck the king as the 9th level MU hit the slowed hell hounds and giants with his cold wand. The elemental then passed through our ranks and began engaging the hell hounds and giantesses guarding the king. Another giant fell and the thief moved closer into position.While the MU continued to blast with his cold wand and the thief moved across the ceiling, the elemental began crushing the hell hounds. The next round the 12th level cleric dropped his giant and shouted “Rush the king!” The giantesses moved to block our way, but, being both invisible and hasted we easily avoided their awkward blows. As the thief dropped on the king, the elf, dwarf, cleric, and fighter all also struck and King Snurre feel dead. The thief then cut his head off and placed it in his bag of holding while the others turned and killed the queen. As more fire giants began entering the room, a previously unnoticed group of gnolls rushed to attack. The round was called as plans were being hastily made for escape.DM: Here the round ended, luckily for the players. Snurre had not really been dead, only pretending, but the bit about the head confirmed the apparent death. I was really surprised at this bit of shennanigans until I found out that it was a regular part of any coup they staged. I was firmly convinced that the group would not have escaped alive, but after reading the following paragraphs, I'm not so sure. . . .Our DM (and other DM’s) have expressed the opinion that if play had continued our group would not have survived. We, however, are of a different opinion, and would like to show here just how we would have effected our escape.As the game was called, out hasted party had just killed the queen on the first part of the melee turn. At the cleric’s shout of “Rush the king!” the ranger had started to move and was at this point next to the giantesses and hell hounds engaged with the elemental. The 9th level MU was blasting the group entering the door with his wand of cold, the 12th level MU was directing the elemental, the thief was placing the king’s head in his bag, and all others were not engaged. On the second half of our melee turn then, the 12th level cleric casts his commune for the quickest way out, while the ranger casts sneezing dust into the hell hounds and giantesses. Also the elf fighter/ MU casts an ice storm just outside the MU casts see invisible to locate Obmi, while the dwarf, fighter, and 9th level cleric fight the gnolls.On the first part of the next melee turn, the MU yells to the ranger where Ombi is and she moves towards him. The 12th level cleric yells to the group which way is the fastest way out and the group slowly (comparatively) begins to move in that direction, slashing, hacking, andetc. When the ranger reaches Obmi, on the second half of the melee, she dusts him with appearance dust. The fighter then moves to join her and help subjue him. The rest of the group still slowly moves towards our excape route, slashing and hacking, while the 9th level MU resumes hitting those enemies entering the doorway.The next melee round has the fighter and ranger knocking out Obmi (who is not in haste) tying him up and forcing a potion of invisibility down his throat. This should take up both halves of our melee turn. The rest of the group continues fighting both halves. At the beginning of the next melee round the ranger takes Obmi, the fighter calls out to our thiefand finds his position while we all fight. The second half has the fighter grabbing up the thief and all those fighting disengaging and preparing to run.On the next turn, all, including the 12th level MU, run for the exit. We figure that even if the elemental is not yet dead, he will have to fight his way through the remaining giants to follow us, and if that doesn’t stop him for awhile, then he still cannot keep up with us in our hasted state. From this point on we all run. It will take us less than two melee turns to reach the exit. Because of our hasted state, all this action has taken only a few melee turns. This is fast enough to insure our avoiding those coming up from deeper in Snurre’s halls. I should also point out that at the time the game was called, no one in the group was more than 30% damaged, and all had at least two extra healing potions each.[/sblock]This is not the only way to play the game. It's not really my preferred approach - I'm a terrible wargaming referee (I don't have the patience) and I'm a mediocre wargaming player (mostly again because of the lack of patience). But it's definitely a thing, and it was far more prominent in 1978 than in 1988.</blockquote>

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