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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8484666" data-attributes="member: 82106">Definitely how I see them. That cited text of 5e DMG P245 is pretty informative there. "Whether the adventurers can shift a creature'sattitude is up to you. You decide whether the adventurerhave successfully couched their statements in termsthat matter to the creature."Next the DMG explains that players don't have an understanding of the NPC's personality, but they MIGHT be able to deduce it, and they could be wrong. "After interacting with a creature long enough to geta sense of its personality traits and characteristicsthrough conversation, an adventurer can attempt aWisdom (Insight) check to uncover one of the creature'scharacteristics. You set the DC. A check that fails by10 or more might misidentify a characteristic, so youshould provide a false characteristic or invert one ofthe creature's existing characteristics."Notice that this is entirely up to the GM, can the player make this check at all? What results would produce accurate information, and which would not? These are all answered by the GM, so in effect the availability of the check and any consequences are entirely under GM control, the players have no authority here at all, just an invite to fish for GM allowances, which might even be met with deception!"When the adventurers get to the point of theirrequest, demand, or suggestion- or if you decide theconversation has run its course- call for a Charismacheck. Any character who has actively participated inthe conversation can make the check. Depending onhow the adventurers handled the conversation , thePersuasion, Deception , or Intimidation skill might applyto the check."So, here again we have the GM's decision to invoke a check, it isn't even called for by a player, nor do they appear to have input into the type of check. Presumably in good faith the GM will ask for a type of check which is commensurate with the actions performed which constituted the 'conversation'. I mean, this IS in some sense a process, it is less 'anything goes' than nothing at all. We would just contrast it with an SC where the number of checks is predetermined, and the end states are established at the start of the process (though granting the players may not know precisely what they will be, or they might be altered somewhat by the intervening fiction).</blockquote>

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