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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 8485134" data-attributes="member: 97077">Notably, a player determines what the character thinks about the NPC's lie, even if the DM is rolling a Charisma (Deception) check for the NPC and that is higher than the character's passive Wisdom (Insight). All it means is the PC couldn't pick up any body language, speech habits, or mannerisms that suggest the NPC is lying. The player still portrays the character any way they prefer - the PC believes the lie, doesn't know what to think about the lie, definitely doesn't believe the lie but doesn't have any proof, or whatever the player wants. (Any of those responses might be worth of Inspiration if it plays to a personal characteristic.) To this end, it's better in my view to just have the PC roll Wisdom (Insight) as a contest against the NPC's Charisma (Deception) or a set DC. This put it in the hands of the player to declare the action which is then resolved as normal.There's also no good reason in my view to roll Charisma (Intimidation) or Charisma (Persuasion) checks for an NPC either as it pertains to PCs. The player says whether the character is intimidated or persuaded anyway. The only work the roll is doing is that of acting as weighted dice to inform the DM's description like rolling for inconsequential weather, which are unnecessary in my view. (Though I do roll for weather in some games!) I can just say that the orc is trying intimidate the PCs and how (or the merchant is trying to persuade the PCs and how), then ask &quot;What do you do?&quot; It's not like the NPC can &quot;use Intimidate&quot; or &quot;use Persuasion&quot; on the PCs like a button to push to make them do something. The player decides.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="iserith, post: 8485134, member: 97077"] Notably, a player determines what the character thinks about the NPC's lie, even if the DM is rolling a Charisma (Deception) check for the NPC and that is higher than the character's passive Wisdom (Insight). All it means is the PC couldn't pick up any body language, speech habits, or mannerisms that suggest the NPC is lying. The player still portrays the character any way they prefer - the PC believes the lie, doesn't know what to think about the lie, definitely doesn't believe the lie but doesn't have any proof, or whatever the player wants. (Any of those responses might be worth of Inspiration if it plays to a personal characteristic.) To this end, it's better in my view to just have the PC roll Wisdom (Insight) as a contest against the NPC's Charisma (Deception) or a set DC. This put it in the hands of the player to declare the action which is then resolved as normal. There's also no good reason in my view to roll Charisma (Intimidation) or Charisma (Persuasion) checks for an NPC either as it pertains to PCs. The player says whether the character is intimidated or persuaded anyway. The only work the roll is doing is that of acting as weighted dice to inform the DM's description like rolling for inconsequential weather, which are unnecessary in my view. (Though I do roll for weather in some games!) I can just say that the orc is trying intimidate the PCs and how (or the merchant is trying to persuade the PCs and how), then ask "What do you do?" It's not like the NPC can "use Intimidate" or "use Persuasion" on the PCs like a button to push to make them do something. The player decides. [/QUOTE]

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