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<blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8486495" data-attributes="member: 84112">yeah... that is the ROLE they chose normally with abstractions... &quot;Hey my character is smarter then me and wants to do X but I gotts no clue how he is going to do it&quot; or &quot;I give an inspire speach&quot; or &quot;I intimidate the guard&quot; or &quot;I use fancy words to impress them&quot; (bonus points cause the last one can be either Int or Cha)yup... that is a BIG part of why we can't agree.&nbsp; I see you playing a ROLE, not playing yourself.&nbsp; See above about chess and combat and just ingeneral things that don't transalte as 'every character you play gets to be good at every thing you are'and again... we read the same words VERY differently I don't get this sentence...but you would rule the certainty on the out of game knowledge?You said up top &quot;I think some of the misunderstanding here comes from what appears to be your need to separate player and character knowledge whereas I have no such need.&quot;if a player at your table knew that the king had an affair and had a bastard... but the character had no way of knowing it (say it was info a previous character that died had, or even just from last campaign in same world) can they use that knowledge? okay so the paliden in plate with disadvantage in stealth and an 8 dex describes a brilliant way to sneak past a guard... a rogue trained expertise in stealth and boots of elven kind and a dex above 20 can't tell you how he is stealthing but just that he wants to... you will auto pass the paliden and make the rogue keep trying to explain... right?a good approach is subjective. a real life persuasive person can get you to think anything is a 'good approch' even a bad one. A player that is not persuasive but maybe a bit abrasive might not be able to make any approach sound good...at least we agree there.nope still not getting how making someone describe HOW (not just what) they are doing something isn't giving more persuasive talkers a major advantage.it's all the same thing... its cha checks by NPCs or PCvsPC, it's how to roleplay, its pretty much most of the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HammerMan, post: 8486495, member: 84112"] yeah... that is the ROLE they chose normally with abstractions... "Hey my character is smarter then me and wants to do X but I gotts no clue how he is going to do it" or "I give an inspire speach" or "I intimidate the guard" or "I use fancy words to impress them" (bonus points cause the last one can be either Int or Cha) yup... that is a BIG part of why we can't agree. I see you playing a ROLE, not playing yourself. See above about chess and combat and just ingeneral things that don't transalte as 'every character you play gets to be good at every thing you are' and again... we read the same words VERY differently I don't get this sentence... but you would rule the certainty on the out of game knowledge? You said up top "I think some of the misunderstanding here comes from what appears to be your need to separate player and character knowledge whereas I have no such need." if a player at your table knew that the king had an affair and had a bastard... but the character had no way of knowing it (say it was info a previous character that died had, or even just from last campaign in same world) can they use that knowledge? okay so the paliden in plate with disadvantage in stealth and an 8 dex describes a brilliant way to sneak past a guard... a rogue trained expertise in stealth and boots of elven kind and a dex above 20 can't tell you how he is stealthing but just that he wants to... you will auto pass the paliden and make the rogue keep trying to explain... right? a good approach is subjective. a real life persuasive person can get you to think anything is a 'good approch' even a bad one. A player that is not persuasive but maybe a bit abrasive might not be able to make any approach sound good... at least we agree there. nope still not getting how making someone describe HOW (not just what) they are doing something isn't giving more persuasive talkers a major advantage. it's all the same thing... its cha checks by NPCs or PCvsPC, it's how to roleplay, its pretty much most of the game. [/QUOTE]

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