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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8487072" data-attributes="member: 6801845">This is not so much a question of how they resolve it (there are many, many options) or how I would run it.  It's a question of you would run it at your table.Maybe.  I guess I was trying to describe something that happened in a game a while back and cut to the stealth scene to keep it simple.  Yes, if the PCs have knock and have it prepared it's something they could cast.  I don't remember it ever being used in any game I've ever played in any recent edition, the drawbacks are just too high.  Obviously different people have different experiences.How I would run the Casting knock scenario:DM: "What do you do?"Bob: "We've decided that Fizbin will go to the back and cast knock to open the back door."DM: "Okay, you're trained in Arcana and you know that this will be clearly heard out to 300 feet, roughly 3 square blocks.  It's loud."Bob:  "Yep, that's what we're doing."DM: "You get to the back of the warehouse, it's a back alley with limited lines of sight.  You'll have to be within 20 feet of the door in order to see it."Bob: "Sounds good.  I try to find some cover and cast the spell."DM: "You hide behind a bale of something that smells of mildew and rot and cast the spell.  Out front, you guys hear a thunderous boom and the guard snorts and wakes up, looking around with alarm.  He pulls a something out of his pocket and speaks into it after standing up. "Sue: "Perception 8 to see what he pulled out?" [If she had just asked if she could see what he pulled out there would have been no roll].DM: Sue can see it pretty clearly, no roll was necessary but it doesn't bother me that she rolled.  I do need a check to see if she knows what the stone is.  "He pulled out a small stone.  Give me an Arcana or History check."  She may have advantage based on her background such as urchin or spy.Sue: rolling dice "16 history"DM: "You remember that sending stones are often given to guards in this district, especially those associated to The Spiders, a notorious criminal organization".At that point it's just up to the PCs what they do.  Attack the guard who is no longer just an innocent bystander but a member of a criminal organization?  Hope they can get whatever they need before reinforcements show up?It's a mix of things I'll just tell the PCs because of their training, different styles of declaring and resolving actions.  What I won't do is change a DC.The stealth scenario? Much simpler.The group could:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Send Fizbin's familiar walking down the street to see if the guard notices.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cause some noise off to the side to distract the guard and grant the rogue advantage because they are helping.</li> </ul>When the rogue goes they could say <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"I carefully approach the front door, keeping an eye on the guard looking for any signs of movement or shifting of his head.  I use the wagon and barrels for cover and wait for any indication he's distracted."  As a DM I'll ask for a stealth check unless it's my wife's PC who can't get less than a 25.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">State that they are sneaking up to the door and that they got a 17 on their stealth check.  I assume they're taking advantage of the available cover and watching the guard carefully. After all, this is what their PC is good at.</li> </ul>The DC for the stealth check will be the same in either case - anything from automatic because guard is sound asleep, a 15 because they're drowsy and bored but awake, a 25 because he was just pretending be asleep but the rogue is trained to time things just right.  Maybe it's impossible because there's an invisible sentry they didn't know about.What I won't do?  I won't change the DC based on the description of how the rogue sneaks up to the door.How they declare the action doesn't matter to me.  They don't need to state the goal, I know what the goal is in this scenario.  They don't even have to go into much detail on how they do what they do as long as it's obvious.</blockquote>

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