Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8501168" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Fiction is on the left. Mechanics on the right. What in the fiction affects the grapple? Yes, there's a right arrow from "I try to grab the orc" to the mechanics to resolve the attempt, but there's nothing else from the fiction that goes in here. You resolve the mechanics. On a failure, there's no left arrow back to the fiction -- nothing changes. You were not grabbing the orc before, and you are not now. On a success, there's a leftward arrow -- the fiction changes from not grabbing to grabbing. However, there are almost no left arrows in the fiction that adjust/impact the resolution of the grapple.</p><p></p><p>And this is intentional design! 5e combat works on turns, where on your turn you can propose a change, but whether or not one happens doesn't affect the next step, which is that the next person gets to propose a change. This structure, of fixed alternating turns, is what drives the process, but it's entirely boxes, not fiction. Other games, though, do not have this structure, and so rely more strongly on interactions between.</p><p></p><p>In 5e, if I attack the orc, my declaration as a player is in the fiction -- Bob the fighter is swinging their longsword at the orc. This creates a rightward arrow to the mechanics. The attack is then resolved here, without further input from the fiction. The result, unless it zeros the orc's hitpoint total, doesn't generate any required leftwards arrows back into the fiction. A miss or hit is pretty much interchangeable in the fiction -- it might get an arbitrary narration, but, as I've shown, a hit and a miss can be described identically*. This would appear to stop the process, but 5e has the imitative mechanic, so once completed, the turn then goes to the next person in order (perhaps the orc) who then does the same general process. This works because the end result of this process tends to generate a left arrow -- the orc or Bob is out of hitpoints. For the intermediate moments, the initiative mechanic clicks along keeping thing moving.</p><p></p><p>In DW, however, there's no initiative mechanic. In fact, there's no turns at all. Foes do not have a fixed turn. So, here, there's more need for arrows back and forth. The fiction of the action is a right arrow, and resolved, but it creates immediate left arrows back into the fiction. An attack in DW always changes the fiction in some way. Always. And this gets even more pronounced in other game, like Blades in the Dark, where the initial right arrow of the action declaration immediately calls other right arrows from the fiction into the resolution mechanic, and then some left arrows are proposed for results prior to resolution, negotiation takes place and is agreed to, and then resolution occurs and a hard left arrow results according to the negotiated agreement. This is iterative tech based off of PbtA.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8501168, member: 16814"] Fiction is on the left. Mechanics on the right. What in the fiction affects the grapple? Yes, there's a right arrow from "I try to grab the orc" to the mechanics to resolve the attempt, but there's nothing else from the fiction that goes in here. You resolve the mechanics. On a failure, there's no left arrow back to the fiction -- nothing changes. You were not grabbing the orc before, and you are not now. On a success, there's a leftward arrow -- the fiction changes from not grabbing to grabbing. However, there are almost no left arrows in the fiction that adjust/impact the resolution of the grapple. And this is intentional design! 5e combat works on turns, where on your turn you can propose a change, but whether or not one happens doesn't affect the next step, which is that the next person gets to propose a change. This structure, of fixed alternating turns, is what drives the process, but it's entirely boxes, not fiction. Other games, though, do not have this structure, and so rely more strongly on interactions between. In 5e, if I attack the orc, my declaration as a player is in the fiction -- Bob the fighter is swinging their longsword at the orc. This creates a rightward arrow to the mechanics. The attack is then resolved here, without further input from the fiction. The result, unless it zeros the orc's hitpoint total, doesn't generate any required leftwards arrows back into the fiction. A miss or hit is pretty much interchangeable in the fiction -- it might get an arbitrary narration, but, as I've shown, a hit and a miss can be described identically*. This would appear to stop the process, but 5e has the imitative mechanic, so once completed, the turn then goes to the next person in order (perhaps the orc) who then does the same general process. This works because the end result of this process tends to generate a left arrow -- the orc or Bob is out of hitpoints. For the intermediate moments, the initiative mechanic clicks along keeping thing moving. In DW, however, there's no initiative mechanic. In fact, there's no turns at all. Foes do not have a fixed turn. So, here, there's more need for arrows back and forth. The fiction of the action is a right arrow, and resolved, but it creates immediate left arrows back into the fiction. An attack in DW always changes the fiction in some way. Always. And this gets even more pronounced in other game, like Blades in the Dark, where the initial right arrow of the action declaration immediately calls other right arrows from the fiction into the resolution mechanic, and then some left arrows are proposed for results prior to resolution, negotiation takes place and is agreed to, and then resolution occurs and a hard left arrow results according to the negotiated agreement. This is iterative tech based off of PbtA. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game
Top