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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8501445" data-attributes="member: 6696971">First off, I'm not nitpicking your GMing.&nbsp; I'm trying to help all of you guys' conversation here with some course-correction/clarity.Second, you're misconstruing what I'm saying for some reason that is unknown to me. I'm not comparing/contrasting &quot;Gain Hold&quot; to &quot;Take +1 Forward&quot; to &quot;Choose between x, y, z.&quot; I'm talking about limited effect is a complication that is already encoded in several 7-9 moves within Dungeon World, Discern Realities being one of those moves...ergo, making a soft move on top of that encoded limited effect is administering 2 *&nbsp; soft moves (ergo not correct GMing).&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm going to try again.Here is DefendHopefully, it is clear that on a 10+ you get 3.&nbsp; On a 7-9, you get 1. That going from 3 to 1 (reduced effect) is the complication. Dungeon World basic moves and playbooks have this throughout the game.&nbsp; Rendering a second complication is not appropriate.Now look at VolleyOn a 7-9, the player chooses between the following complications:* Movement on the battlefield resulting in danger.* Reduced Effect.* Ammo - 1.I've been trying to illustrate how a GM soft move on a 7-9 DR result is akin to saying to the player who gets a 7-9 on Volley, &quot;alright, you have to take what you can get (-1d6 damage = reduced effect) but you also need to choose how this shot further complicates your life; -1 Ammo or Danger?&quot;The already encoded in the move complication for a 7-9 DR is 1 question instead of 3.&nbsp; The complication on a 7-9 Defend is only 1 of those 4 embedded results instead of 3.&nbsp; You're not doing something else (a soft move) on top of that already reduced effect (reduced effect being the complication); your volley is reduced -1d6 in effectiveness AND you suffer a danger you have to resolve...you can only redirect the attack from your charge to yourself so take this damage/effect AND I'm going to make an additional soft move against you.I don't know how I can be more clear.&nbsp; I was trying to be courteous and helpful (as I've run PBtA games generally and DW specifically for probably nearing 1500 hours at this point) to you guys' ongoing conversation.&nbsp; I've spent waaaaaaaaaay more time than I intended in the process.&nbsp; If this doesn't help clarify then....ok.&nbsp; But my contribution to the conversation is over.EDIT - [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] I didn't jump in to nit-pick.&nbsp; I jumped in to help you guys as this was brought to my attention.&nbsp; This is friendly help...do with it as you will&nbsp; That is all.&nbsp; Again, you guys carry on.&nbsp; My involvement is over.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8501445, member: 6696971"] First off, I'm not nitpicking your GMing. I'm trying to help all of you guys' conversation here with some course-correction/clarity. Second, you're misconstruing what I'm saying for some reason that is unknown to me. I'm not comparing/contrasting "Gain Hold" to "Take +1 Forward" to "Choose between x, y, z." I'm talking about [B][I]limited effect is a complication that is already encoded in several 7-9 moves within Dungeon World, Discern Realities being one of those moves...ergo, making a soft move on top of that encoded limited effect is administering 2 * soft moves (ergo not correct GMing)[/I][/B]. I'm going to try again. Here is Defend Hopefully, it is clear that on a 10+ you get 3. On a 7-9, you get 1. [I] That going from 3 to 1 (reduced effect) [B]is the complication. [/B][/I] Dungeon World basic moves and playbooks have this throughout the game. Rendering a second complication is not appropriate. Now look at Volley On a 7-9, the player chooses between the following complications: * Movement on the battlefield resulting in danger. * Reduced Effect. * Ammo - 1. I've been trying to illustrate how a GM soft move on a 7-9 DR result is akin to saying to the player who gets a 7-9 on Volley, "alright, you have to take what you can get (-1d6 damage = reduced effect) but you also need to choose how this shot further complicates your life; -1 Ammo or Danger?" The already encoded in the move complication for a 7-9 DR is [I]1 question instead of 3[/I]. The complication on a 7-9 Defend is only [I]1 of those 4 embedded results instead of 3[/I]. You're not doing something else (a soft move) on top of that already reduced effect (reduced effect being the complication); your volley is reduced -1d6 in effectiveness AND you suffer a danger you have to resolve...you can only redirect the attack from your charge to yourself so take this damage/effect AND I'm going to make an additional soft move against you. I don't know how I can be more clear. I was trying to be courteous and helpful (as I've run PBtA games generally and DW specifically for probably nearing 1500 hours at this point) to you guys' ongoing conversation. I've spent waaaaaaaaaay more time than I intended in the process. If this doesn't help clarify then....ok. But my contribution to the conversation is over. EDIT - [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] I didn't jump in to nit-pick. I jumped in to help you guys as this was brought to my attention. This is friendly help...do with it as you will That is all. Again, you guys carry on. My involvement is over. [/QUOTE]

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