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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8503102" data-attributes="member: 71699">To say it is optional makes me feel you are describing groups that either haven't read the basic pattern on PHB 6, or choose not to apply it. I am speaking about the game as written.I think you are describing hard constraints on the orc's future Fs and Gs. The orc player might not be able to say the orc runs quickly away, because of that leg. Let's look at a canonical example from DW.GM: Jarl, you’re up to your not-inconsiderable belly in slavering goblins. They have you surrounded, knives bared. What do you do?Jarl: I’ve had enough of this! I wallop the closest goblin with my hammer.GM: Okay, then. This is definitely combat, you’re using hack and slash. Roll+Str.Jarl: I got an 11. It says here that I have a choice. Fear is for the weak, let those goblins come!GM: You smash your hammer into the nearest goblin and are rewarded by the satisfying sound of the crunching of his bones. That and a knife wound as the goblin counterattacks. He deals 4 damage to you. What do you do?Only weapons with the forceful or stun tags do more than that. That wasn't in play here so any immediate constraints on future Fs and Gs are left up to players and DM. Maybe goblin cares that it is now close to death and acts on that, maybe not. 5th as written is identical: reduced HP ongoing is enough to have changed the fiction (compare with a miss!)If you are playing 5e the same way many played AD&D then I can understand why you say this. If your goblins never care about being close to death - never flee or plead for their lives - then you've made empty an arrow that 5e mandates. There are many cases in 5e that expressly give you the contents of that arrow - menacing Attack is one example - where not express it is up to DM.DM also is the sole judge of when a fictional trigger has been provided (if you aren't getting that from 5e, you need to reread the rules.) If players do the thing, DM is intended to say they do the thing. DW steps in by codifying explicit triggers. It has been robustly shown that this comes down to making it more likely - but not guaranteeing - that play by different groups will be similar. A good pattern is given, but again - it us up to DM to interpret that pattern. Look at Dworkin's concept of right answers.An incomplete or traditional concept of 5th led to incorrect assumptions up-thread. 5th certainly allows that kind of play. DW does too. DW rightly takes more care to say exactly what is intended. 5e is less explicit, guiding folk to the play they expect.Aside from work left up to DM (who is expressly told to do that work) 5e takes a significantly different approach to establishing fiction. I map that something like thisDWPlay Fs > DM Fs5eDM Fs > Play FsThat ">" is greater than or leading to, whichever makes most sense to you. This difference is far more productive of real differences in play than the whole arrows thing. Finding myself in surprising agreement with [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER], watching play you can't easily tell superficially between them, but it is a big deal. [And again, not all or nothing or clear cut in either system.]</blockquote>

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