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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8503598" data-attributes="member: 16814">Again, you're using your arbitrarily chosen fiction insert to provide color.  I mean, a 5e goblin has 7 hitpoints on average.  As low as 2, as high as 12.  A goblin is average hitpoints is in the same danger as a max hitpoint goblin that's taken 5 damage (a reasonable blow for a 1st level character).  Both are within single hit kill range from a range of weapons with a +1 stat bonus to damage.  If I use fiction to describe the 12 hp goblin that's taken a hit, what possible description can a give that establishes that this goblin is in the same position, cubes-wise, at the other?  The specific example your giving is coloring your argument -- you're trying to establish it as a general case to make the point, but everything we can deduce about that example is dependent on that example!The DW example has a different in that it's mechanics are clearly from cloud to cubes to cloud.  The character attacks a goblin, crushes bones (and does actually crush bones as one goblin dies), and is counterattacked.  The is all from a single cubes resolution process, the loop is inherent.  Meanwhile, in 5e, this isn't true.  We have cloud in the attack leading to cubes with the rolls and hp deduction, but this doesn't require any input back into the cloud -- the fiction there is effectively unchanged.  We can make arbitrary insertions, but that's not at the direction or requirement of the cubes resolution.  This interaction is complete, and we have to go up a level in the loops to another cubes to cubes interaction of the initiative, where we might find that your ally goes next.  That waits for (but doesn't generate) a cloud arrow to cubes, and then resolves.  This interaction, if your ally attacks the same goblin and closes out it's hp total, finally generates the arrow from the cubes back to the clouds.  Overall, when considering multiple loops, similar structures DO appears, but 5e may need multiple loops to generate a required arrow back to the cloud.  DW has almost all (I've already provided an example where it might not be so) individual loops generating arrows from cubes to clouds.This doesn't make DW better, just different.  I'm confused as to why you're making an argument that different systems should have the same structures to play.  This is the point of different systems -- different structures!</blockquote>

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