NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8507104" data-attributes="member: 82106">Frankly, I think the fundamental issue with the [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] vs [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] debate is simply the basic Story Game vs Puzzle Game debate. Like, one side thinks 'stakes' means 'you could fall and hurt yourself', and the other side thinks stakes are something meaningful in a story sense. I think this is fundamentally closely aligned to the discussion I've been having with [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER], we just plainly have differing agendas! That goes even a bit deeper to differing ideas of how participants relate to the game itself. This has really significant effects on the structure of the game.Now, [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] said something about we couldn't tell if we were playing his interpretation of 5e without going back to the story and and understanding all the aspects of it. OTOH I'm not totally sure of that. I think its more like I understand the issue as I stated above. There is IN MY WAY OF PLAYING, nothing to be said about a "I just want to climb the cliff" situation, certainly not in D&D which is about much wider concerns, generally (an RPG about mountaineering would be a different story perhaps). So, like, would I have rolls for climbing a cliff when doing so is empty of story significance? No, because I would not arrange affairs in a dramatically focused RPG such that this would ever be the case! If it came up by some sort of happenstance, then the PC gets to the top! I mean, "you were just traveling and you randomly fell to your death" doesn't strike me as useful story! lol. I have a choice of doing that or not doing that and going on to something more dramatic, I'm going on, pure and simple. If the PCs want to endlessly climb cliffs for no discernible reason, I'd call that degenerate play! [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] OTOH wouldn't (he might get sick of those players perhaps, lol).</blockquote>

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