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Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8507329" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Something that clearly violates the physics of the setting e.g. "I jump to the moon", sure. I get that.</p><p></p><p>But it's also within a DM's purview (or should be!) to just say no to an attempt to climb a wall that's simply beyond the ability of the character, even if the character thinks she can do it. (though if it came down to it I'd have the player roll anyway, and hope she rolled a 20 so I could get the point across that nope, you ain't climbing this one)</p><p></p><p>Correct, it's not important most of the time; but as you're the one who brought the example up you're stuck with it now. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>The bigger play here wouldn't be the specifics of getting the robe for free, it'd be the general idea of putting one over on the game.</p><p></p><p>Their characters ARE their interests. As players, they have one job. One. Count 'em. And that one job is this: advocate for your character.</p><p></p><p>And like it or not, advocating for one's character includes trying to squeeze out whatever advantages, be they in-game or mechanical, one can for it (and a player not doing this is abrogating the responsibility of advocating for the character to the fullest means possible); and it's the DM's job in turn to keep this in check.</p><p></p><p>Thing is, "being the players' ally" is the sort of thinking that very quickly leads to fudged rolls and other non-neutral refereeing.</p><p></p><p>And that right there is part of the campaign's interest: self-sustainability. The DM has to run with an eye to keeping the game going, one week to the next and one year to the next; while the players can happily ignore any such considerations if they want to.</p><p></p><p>Which is, in a broad sense, one place where I run aground on the story-game concept: it's hard to have a mystery, or secrets in/about the setting, if there's little or no hidden fiction; and a large part of play often revolves around discovering secrets and-or solving mysteries.</p><p></p><p>Everything.</p><p></p><p>Time, and the careful management thereof by the DM, is perhaps the single most important element in making a game world believable and inhabitable.</p><p></p><p>Well, in my mind a DM who has to retcon to that extent just shouldn't be a DM. Retcons are bad bad bad bad bad.</p><p></p><p>Why?</p><p></p><p>Because a retcon invalidates whatever aspects of previous play that are being retconned and-or overwritten, meaning that going through said play in the first place was a complete waste of time for everyone involved.</p><p></p><p>Put another way, the existence of retcons means that even once fiction has been established, well, it still hasn't really been established because it can always be retconned later. Bleah.</p><p></p><p>Sigh...</p><p></p><p>It's nothing to do with children and everything to do with advocating for the character to the fullest of your ability and squeezing whatever advantages you can, which includes pushing the rules envelope until it pushes back.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8507329, member: 29398"] Something that clearly violates the physics of the setting e.g. "I jump to the moon", sure. I get that. But it's also within a DM's purview (or should be!) to just say no to an attempt to climb a wall that's simply beyond the ability of the character, even if the character thinks she can do it. (though if it came down to it I'd have the player roll anyway, and hope she rolled a 20 so I could get the point across that nope, you ain't climbing this one) Correct, it's not important most of the time; but as you're the one who brought the example up you're stuck with it now. :) The bigger play here wouldn't be the specifics of getting the robe for free, it'd be the general idea of putting one over on the game. Their characters ARE their interests. As players, they have one job. One. Count 'em. And that one job is this: advocate for your character. And like it or not, advocating for one's character includes trying to squeeze out whatever advantages, be they in-game or mechanical, one can for it (and a player not doing this is abrogating the responsibility of advocating for the character to the fullest means possible); and it's the DM's job in turn to keep this in check. Thing is, "being the players' ally" is the sort of thinking that very quickly leads to fudged rolls and other non-neutral refereeing. And that right there is part of the campaign's interest: self-sustainability. The DM has to run with an eye to keeping the game going, one week to the next and one year to the next; while the players can happily ignore any such considerations if they want to. Which is, in a broad sense, one place where I run aground on the story-game concept: it's hard to have a mystery, or secrets in/about the setting, if there's little or no hidden fiction; and a large part of play often revolves around discovering secrets and-or solving mysteries. Everything. Time, and the careful management thereof by the DM, is perhaps the single most important element in making a game world believable and inhabitable. Well, in my mind a DM who has to retcon to that extent just shouldn't be a DM. Retcons are bad bad bad bad bad. Why? Because a retcon invalidates whatever aspects of previous play that are being retconned and-or overwritten, meaning that going through said play in the first place was a complete waste of time for everyone involved. Put another way, the existence of retcons means that even once fiction has been established, well, it still hasn't really been established because it can always be retconned later. Bleah. Sigh... It's nothing to do with children and everything to do with advocating for the character to the fullest of your ability and squeezing whatever advantages you can, which includes pushing the rules envelope until it pushes back. [/QUOTE]
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