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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8508138" data-attributes="member: 29398">Agreed.For me, the metaphorical 'unclimbable wall' is there to encourage (or force) outside-the-box thinking.  The Dragon example is a good one here.In the literal example, we can't climb this wall?  OK, can we go around it?  Can we bash a way through it?  Is there anything up there we really need anyway?  Should we turn around and go elsewhere?  Should we go back to town and bring someone back who can cast Fly or Levitate for us?If one starts with the very common philosophy in games and sports that says "Rules are made to be broken" it gives a whole new viewpoint.Further, I don't see this as "toxic" behavior at all - instead, I see it as typical normal play: a player is trying to get the best for her character (or, sometimes, the players collectively are trying to get the best for the party) by pushing the envelope, and the DM has to push back.In the here-and-now, yes.But how often does a player ever think now about the game-state two real-time years down the road?  I'd posit the answer is close to never.  Contrast this with a DM, who has to think about both the here-and-now and the long-term.Were I a player and got the sense we'd been spared purely out of DM mercy, it would seriously cheapen the whole game for me.If our number comes up then bloody well kill us off - or try your best.  If at least one player is smart enough to have a PC run or hide or otherwise find a way to survive (yes, even if it means hanging their ex-companions out to dry) then the party, the story, and the game - goes on.  I've killed many a PC in my time but I am constantly amazed at the resiliency of parties as a whole; someone always* survives to keep things going and either recruit a new party or find means of reviving the old one.* - well, almost always: I'm allowed my one TPK in 38 years, aren't I? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I try to plan for ten years, and then see what ends up happening.  One storyline leads to the next sometimes, other times what they do stands alone from any overarching story either of mine or theirs.Which is good, and I get mixed up as to who tends to advocate for which system here, but doesn't Blades in the Dark somewhat rely on retcons and flashbacks as part of its play?Cool!</blockquote>

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