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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8511637" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think what I'm trying to say is that 'narrative meaningful stuff' is not very explicit or clear, whereas something like DW's "portray a fantastic world" or "be a fan of the characters", or "make a move which follows from the fiction" seems rather more concrete to me. In any case, you can see how much more deeply embedded in the 'guts' of the game these ideas are in PbtA than in D&D, right? I mean, we can argue endlessly about what the designers of 5e were really after, if they even thought about it at all, but it is hard to have much doubt about what DW's authors intend. We can still debate the finer points of whether or not an instance of play matched the intent well or not, etc. but 5e is a LOT murkier, IMHO. 5e* doesn't help much.I mean, sure, its useless to discuss other games if your only focus is on playing 5e, basically as-is, in a better way. But I would think that the most successful approach, the one I would pick at least, would be to identify practices and principles that are most amenable to instantiation in the game and have the most impact. Then I'd be faced with where that conflicts with the game's actual structure, but at least now I know where I will run into trouble. Some things I can change, others we might be stuck with, although there seem to finally be a wide range of 'flavors' of 5e products out there that might be chosen from.</blockquote>