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Roleplaying Powerful Beings versus Smart-Aleck PCs
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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8498456" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>Most players seem to want D&D to be nothing more than consequence-free power fantasy. Check in with them to see if they actually want you to run the world as if it were a real place and the NPC as real people in that world. If so, pile on the consequences. If not, the PCs are the main characters in an unfolding tale of just how awesome they are. If your view and the players' view are not aligned, no one will have fun.</p><p></p><p>I run the world as if it's a real place and the NPCs as if they were real people living in that world. So if the PCs mouth off to a king, they're locked up until they apologize or are executed for further mouthing off.</p><p></p><p>For me the fun is in the verisimilitude, the faux realism of the fantasy world. If there's a choice between maintaining that and the players' fun, the verisimilitude wins every single time. If the players don't have fun facing the consequences of their action, then they either stop doing stupid stuff or they find another table. I've been doing this nearly 40 years and I've yet to see any way to have the PCs just be mouthy and face zero consequences without immediately devolving into comedy and farce. If the powerful NPCs have no teeth they're no longer impressive.</p><p></p><p>You have to pick one: consequence-free “fun” or verisimilitude. You can't have both. Either the players get to do whatever they want without consequences and the verisimilitude dies or the players get to face the consequences of their action and you find a way to make that fun. I went for the latter.</p><p></p><p>Removing player agency is a tough one. Most players would rather have their characters die and stop playing the game that have no agency. In most readings of what RPGs actually are, player agency is kinda the point of it all. But, if you want to maintain some semblance of faux-realism in your fantasy world, you will find places where the characters and players don't really have any agency to speak of. Too much and it's a railroad, not enough and again the world loses what little faux-realism it has.</p><p></p><p>Telegraph the archfey's response by having them witness what the archfey will do when people get snarky. Have a line of other people waiting to talk to the same NPC and the person immediately in front of them in line mouths off in some minor way and the archfey has them executed on the spot. Have some other, related NPC warn the characters not to be rude and tell them what happens to those who insult the archfey. Chances are even if you use both the players will decide they're special enough to get away with being snarky.</p><p></p><p>I'm dealing with an eerily similar circumstance. I run West Marches games and have a general "the world exists independent of the PCs" rule in place that the players are aware of. So they're free to go and do whatever they want, but the world is not level-appropriate. They can wander into an ancient dragon's lair at 1st level if that's their choice. I sign post and drop hints and clues to make sure the players know this is a nasty situation. It's only fair. One group has run into a problem. A creature they know is vastly more powerful than they are. What they don't know is the creature is a demi-god on the verge of becoming a literal god. Before the encounter I wrote up that the creature wants power, mostly in the form of worshipers and sacrifices. The only way to immediately anger this creature is to threaten it, its worshipers, or to attack it. The PCs are all 1st level...so of course they have decided that their best course of action is to threaten it, threaten its worshipers, and attack it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8498456, member: 86653"] Most players seem to want D&D to be nothing more than consequence-free power fantasy. Check in with them to see if they actually want you to run the world as if it were a real place and the NPC as real people in that world. If so, pile on the consequences. If not, the PCs are the main characters in an unfolding tale of just how awesome they are. If your view and the players' view are not aligned, no one will have fun. I run the world as if it's a real place and the NPCs as if they were real people living in that world. So if the PCs mouth off to a king, they're locked up until they apologize or are executed for further mouthing off. For me the fun is in the verisimilitude, the faux realism of the fantasy world. If there's a choice between maintaining that and the players' fun, the verisimilitude wins every single time. If the players don't have fun facing the consequences of their action, then they either stop doing stupid stuff or they find another table. I've been doing this nearly 40 years and I've yet to see any way to have the PCs just be mouthy and face zero consequences without immediately devolving into comedy and farce. If the powerful NPCs have no teeth they're no longer impressive. You have to pick one: consequence-free “fun” or verisimilitude. You can't have both. Either the players get to do whatever they want without consequences and the verisimilitude dies or the players get to face the consequences of their action and you find a way to make that fun. I went for the latter. Removing player agency is a tough one. Most players would rather have their characters die and stop playing the game that have no agency. In most readings of what RPGs actually are, player agency is kinda the point of it all. But, if you want to maintain some semblance of faux-realism in your fantasy world, you will find places where the characters and players don't really have any agency to speak of. Too much and it's a railroad, not enough and again the world loses what little faux-realism it has. Telegraph the archfey's response by having them witness what the archfey will do when people get snarky. Have a line of other people waiting to talk to the same NPC and the person immediately in front of them in line mouths off in some minor way and the archfey has them executed on the spot. Have some other, related NPC warn the characters not to be rude and tell them what happens to those who insult the archfey. Chances are even if you use both the players will decide they're special enough to get away with being snarky. I'm dealing with an eerily similar circumstance. I run West Marches games and have a general "the world exists independent of the PCs" rule in place that the players are aware of. So they're free to go and do whatever they want, but the world is not level-appropriate. They can wander into an ancient dragon's lair at 1st level if that's their choice. I sign post and drop hints and clues to make sure the players know this is a nasty situation. It's only fair. One group has run into a problem. A creature they know is vastly more powerful than they are. What they don't know is the creature is a demi-god on the verge of becoming a literal god. Before the encounter I wrote up that the creature wants power, mostly in the form of worshipers and sacrifices. The only way to immediately anger this creature is to threaten it, its worshipers, or to attack it. The PCs are all 1st level...so of course they have decided that their best course of action is to threaten it, threaten its worshipers, and attack it. [/QUOTE]
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