Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Roleplaying Powerful Beings versus Smart-Aleck PCs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="BookTenTiger" data-source="post: 8498477" data-attributes="member: 6685541"><p>I think this is a really interesting problem, and definitely something I've seen come up in my own games. I see three main issues involved:</p><p></p><p><strong>1) The characters are powerful, too.</strong></p><p></p><p>One issue is that gameplay is based around the characters being powerful, and gaining more powers. Most problems can be solved by the characters using those powers, rather than holding back. So in these scenarios, the players are being asked to go against how they normally play. This can create a sense of dissonance and resistance in the players, which then translates to the characters.</p><p></p><p><strong>Possible Solutions:</strong> Make the NPC even <em>more </em>powerful. Is it more intimidating to have Rahadin take the characters' weapons, or to have Rahadin say something like, "Normally I ask visitors to give up their weapons, but I'd hardly call those piddly things weapons..."</p><p></p><p>There's a scene in the book <em>A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court</em> in which Morgan Le Fay just casually kills a servant during a conversation with the main character. The point is clear: this is a woman who is powerful and doesn't value the lives of others. A powerful villain could do the same; every time the characters act like jerks, they just casually kill a servant or a little puppy or something.</p><p></p><p>Also, ignoring bad behavior sends a clear message. When an powerful Archfey literally doesn't seem to hear a smart-aleck character, and doesn't respond at all to their threats (even when they roll really high on their intimidation check), it shows that this NPC is powerful enough to ignore threats or disrespect from the characters.</p><p></p><p><strong>2) It's not very fun to roleplay subservience.</strong></p><p></p><p>One issue is that it's a lot of fun to stand up to authority in an environment where there is no consequence to your actual person. I don't mean consequences for the characters, I mean the players. It's not as fun to roleplay genuflection to powerful villains and NPCs.</p><p></p><p><strong>Possible Solutions: </strong>Skipping past scenes of subservience might help. For example, rather than roleplaying Rahadin at the door, you could just say something like, "When you enter Castle Ravenloft, you are forced to give up your weapons at the door. Does anyone refuse? If so, you can try to conceal your weapons, or wait outside." If players try to roleplay their way out, you could do a quick roll ("Give me a persuasion check for that.") or just handwave it: "Rahadin doesn't seem interested in negotiations."</p><p></p><p>I know you don't want mechanical solutions, but that might actually be viable here. You could warn the players that not following the rules of the social situation results in Disadvantage on Social Skills... but following those rules can grant Advantage!</p><p></p><p>You could even make the NPC's attitude more transparent... if the actions of the characters make the NPC hostile, you could warn them that it will result in social skills being rolled at Disadvantage, or certain rewards not being available. On the other hand, if they can manage to make the NPC friendly, it will unlock more rewards! You could even give clues in the scene. "You get the sense that the Archfey was about to tell you about the treasure you seek, but held back after your remark. Perhaps if you played to their vanity, they would reconsider."</p><p></p><p><strong>3) The players don't live in the campaign world.</strong></p><p></p><p>In the real world, we know the consequences of mouthing off to a police officer, or our boss, or a world leader. We also know how to speak respectfully to an elder or an important member of the community. But if I were dropped into a D&D campaign world, I wouldn't really know the proper etiquette of talking to a king or a High Druid or an Archfey. So when I'm playing in a D&D game, I might default to resistance or rebelliousness when facing authority figures without the knowledge of how I'm supposed to treat them.</p><p></p><p><strong>Possible Solutions: </strong>One idea is to be really transparent with the social codes in social encounters. For example, when the characters are presented to the King of the Realms, you can step aside and say, "Before we begin, I want to outline some of the social expectations in the King's Court. If your characters follow these expectations, you might be rewarded with treasures or social titles. If your characters don't follow the expectations, you'll lose favor with the king, though you might catch the attention of his rivals."</p><p></p><p>You can even involve the players in coming up with social etiquette. "You're about to speak with the High Druid of the Circle of the Moon. What do you think are some of the social expectations when speaking with the High Druid?" The players might come up with some really fun ideas, and feel more inspired to follow them.</p><p></p><p>Finally, you can prompt the players to follow social codes by giving them ideas on how to achieve their goals. If they say something really rude to the king, you might say something like, "In the King's Court, intimidation usually comes through references to the cowardice of nobility compared to brave adventurers. Sometimes this is done through a story or boast, or a display of martial might." Then the characters can still be their cool, powerful, rebellious selves, while still following the social codes of the court.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Anyways, those are just some ideas!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BookTenTiger, post: 8498477, member: 6685541"] I think this is a really interesting problem, and definitely something I've seen come up in my own games. I see three main issues involved: [B]1) The characters are powerful, too.[/B] One issue is that gameplay is based around the characters being powerful, and gaining more powers. Most problems can be solved by the characters using those powers, rather than holding back. So in these scenarios, the players are being asked to go against how they normally play. This can create a sense of dissonance and resistance in the players, which then translates to the characters. [B]Possible Solutions:[/B] Make the NPC even [I]more [/I]powerful. Is it more intimidating to have Rahadin take the characters' weapons, or to have Rahadin say something like, "Normally I ask visitors to give up their weapons, but I'd hardly call those piddly things weapons..." There's a scene in the book [I]A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court[/I] in which Morgan Le Fay just casually kills a servant during a conversation with the main character. The point is clear: this is a woman who is powerful and doesn't value the lives of others. A powerful villain could do the same; every time the characters act like jerks, they just casually kill a servant or a little puppy or something. Also, ignoring bad behavior sends a clear message. When an powerful Archfey literally doesn't seem to hear a smart-aleck character, and doesn't respond at all to their threats (even when they roll really high on their intimidation check), it shows that this NPC is powerful enough to ignore threats or disrespect from the characters. [B]2) It's not very fun to roleplay subservience.[/B] One issue is that it's a lot of fun to stand up to authority in an environment where there is no consequence to your actual person. I don't mean consequences for the characters, I mean the players. It's not as fun to roleplay genuflection to powerful villains and NPCs. [B]Possible Solutions: [/B]Skipping past scenes of subservience might help. For example, rather than roleplaying Rahadin at the door, you could just say something like, "When you enter Castle Ravenloft, you are forced to give up your weapons at the door. Does anyone refuse? If so, you can try to conceal your weapons, or wait outside." If players try to roleplay their way out, you could do a quick roll ("Give me a persuasion check for that.") or just handwave it: "Rahadin doesn't seem interested in negotiations." I know you don't want mechanical solutions, but that might actually be viable here. You could warn the players that not following the rules of the social situation results in Disadvantage on Social Skills... but following those rules can grant Advantage! You could even make the NPC's attitude more transparent... if the actions of the characters make the NPC hostile, you could warn them that it will result in social skills being rolled at Disadvantage, or certain rewards not being available. On the other hand, if they can manage to make the NPC friendly, it will unlock more rewards! You could even give clues in the scene. "You get the sense that the Archfey was about to tell you about the treasure you seek, but held back after your remark. Perhaps if you played to their vanity, they would reconsider." [B]3) The players don't live in the campaign world.[/B] In the real world, we know the consequences of mouthing off to a police officer, or our boss, or a world leader. We also know how to speak respectfully to an elder or an important member of the community. But if I were dropped into a D&D campaign world, I wouldn't really know the proper etiquette of talking to a king or a High Druid or an Archfey. So when I'm playing in a D&D game, I might default to resistance or rebelliousness when facing authority figures without the knowledge of how I'm supposed to treat them. [B]Possible Solutions: [/B]One idea is to be really transparent with the social codes in social encounters. For example, when the characters are presented to the King of the Realms, you can step aside and say, "Before we begin, I want to outline some of the social expectations in the King's Court. If your characters follow these expectations, you might be rewarded with treasures or social titles. If your characters don't follow the expectations, you'll lose favor with the king, though you might catch the attention of his rivals." You can even involve the players in coming up with social etiquette. "You're about to speak with the High Druid of the Circle of the Moon. What do you think are some of the social expectations when speaking with the High Druid?" The players might come up with some really fun ideas, and feel more inspired to follow them. Finally, you can prompt the players to follow social codes by giving them ideas on how to achieve their goals. If they say something really rude to the king, you might say something like, "In the King's Court, intimidation usually comes through references to the cowardice of nobility compared to brave adventurers. Sometimes this is done through a story or boast, or a display of martial might." Then the characters can still be their cool, powerful, rebellious selves, while still following the social codes of the court. Anyways, those are just some ideas! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Roleplaying Powerful Beings versus Smart-Aleck PCs
Top