roleplaying stat boosts & consequences thereof?

[Kahuna Burger]

The talk of changes in the stat boost spells has gotten me thinking about one of my pet peeves with the D&D magic system - stat boost are pretty much a matter of bookkeeping, add the points to the roll, with no roleplaying side effects or consequences of the spell ending. Some of the fantasy I liked as a kid had very significant effects of even a small wisdom boost, and the characters FELT IT when they lost it.

The effects are most obvious for mental boosts (I had a low level character with low wisdom who had made some really shortsighted choices early on - I was planning a small scale nervous breakdown if she ever got boosted above average and suddenly saw her life in wider perspective...) but there's also the "just got out of the swimming pool" feeling you'd except to get when a str or dex boost wore off.

I'm making the poll multiple answer just so you everyone can include the caveat about balancing the spell if you're goign to add drawbacks to it...

 

[Zogg]

Ooooohhh..... I like the idea of stat boost addiction. Perhaps you would make a percentage roll that is modified by your Will Save - and if you fail, you become addicted and your PC suffers in some way.

Perhaps you have a 20% chance of addiction (minus 2% for every point of your will save)?

I don't know - I really like this idea but I think people would complain about it being too complicated.

 

[Zappo]

"Should"... eh, more like "could". The spells are fine as they are, both from a flavor and balance point of view. I reckon the magic also takes care of eliminating possible addiction or adjustment effects. Other, less evolved, spells with side-effects could be interesting, but not needed.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Ooooohhh..... I like the idea of stat boost addiction. Perhaps you would make a percentage roll that is modified by your Will Save - and if you fail, you become addicted and your PC suffers in some way.

Perhaps you have a 20% chance of addiction (minus 2% for every point of your will save)?

I don't know - I really like this idea but I think people would complain about it being too complicated.

I'd make addiction a more long term possibility, and something of a DM call when will checks or hard effects should start...

possibly if a character spends over 50% of his time under a minor stat boost (+1 or 2), or 25% under a major one (+4 to 6) the DM should start giving roleplaying hints that his unboosted time is unsatisfactory... wisdom checks to recognize the addiction, but if the level of boosting continues for over a week straight, there will be a withdrawl...

Kahuna burger

 

[fusangite]

I voted against any significant consequences. This is not because I don't think a good magic system shouldn't include them but rather because I think that the D&D magic system is ill-suited to have such effects. If I were designing a magic system from the ground up, I might well support the creative ideas put forward here but I really think that trying to fix the D&D magic system is kind of like trying to fix the MS Windows file system -- the system is founded on the principles of backward compatibility, stability and the maintenance of an irrational system based on non-system priorities (e.g. popularity).

I'm in the process of designing a decent magic system for a new game I'm working on; I'll probably use some of the ideas you've suggested for it. But in my view, the D&D magic system is so deeply flawed that attempts to rationalize it beyond WotC efforts are essentially a misdirection of energy.

 

[Nifft]

I don't allow mental-boosting spells (or psi powers).

-- Nifft

 

[Mark]

...roleplaying side effects...

You mean like the first time a guy gets a Bull's Strength and leaves his hand indentation in a goblet in the tavern?

 

[Zogg]

I don't allow mental-boosting spells (or psi powers).

-- Nifft

Ok. So what about bull's strength, cat's grace or eagle's splendor? I can easily imagine:

- A mediocre fighter becoming addicted to bull's strength potions. He likes the strength he feels and hates to feel it go. He also likes to arm-wrestle and grapple for sport and makes good money taking on other muscular men whom he would not normally beat. If he goes a long time without feeling the strength the spell embues upon him, he becomes sullen and feels inadequate (-2 to attack and morale?).

-A vain bard loves to impress any audience with her sultry singing and dancing. She often casts eagle's splendor on herself before a big show and loves the reaction and attention of her fans. If she becomes addicted and then goes a long time without being under the influence of the spell she becomes depressed, will cover her face with a hood and refuse to go out in public and interact with people (-2 to charisma based skills?).

-An upstart rogue wants to prove himself to a guild of particular renown in a large city. He obtains a number of cat's grace potions and cleans out a noble's estate with ease. He enjoys his ability to move deftly and swiftly, and should he become addicted and go a long time without using the potions he begins to feel an anxiety about his abilities and is liable to avoid thieving altogether (-1 Will Save, -2 to dexterity related skills?).

These are just some examples - and I agree they would be complicated to implement. But that doesn't mean they are wrong or reduce the fun of the experience.

I'm with Kahuna when he says it would be nice to see some RP effects from stat-boosting items. Let's face it, out of character gamers are often ferocious about obtaining bigger and better items and having the most buffed character out there - if a gamer chooses to play that way, why should his PC be any different?

 

[Nifft]

Ok. So what about bull's strength, cat's grace or eagle's splendor?

That last one is a mental stat booster.

As to the others, sure, addiction could be fun -- but only if your players are into it. IMHO it's better as an NPC antic -- imagine the halfling Rogue who only steals in order to buy his next Potion of Cat's Grace, or the Dwarf who always wants some Endurance-enhancement before his daily drinking match.

I would never hit PCs with this kind of stick, though.

-- Nifft

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Re: Re: roleplaying stat boosts & consequences thereof?

You mean like the first time a guy gets a Bull's Strength and leaves his hand indentation in a goblet in the tavern?

Or you rule that if he rolls over what he needs for his jump check, he really does overshoot the mark first time he tries it...

Kahuna Burger