Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 4654412" data-attributes="member: 3146">In my opinion, an overemphasis on PC roles straitjackets players and has directly led to a number of tactical deficiencies on the part of many players. The discussion of "defender" or "leader" obscures what those characters actually do which is far more important. Defenders control aggression who monsters attack through their marks but the party also needs to control where monsters can move through OAs and other class abilities. Fighters can do that. Charisma paladins cannot (at least at heroic tier). Yet they are both defenders. Similarly, the leader role incorporates a lot of different abilities and no leader class is actually good at all of them (though inspiring warlords come close post-Martial Power). Leaders grant saving throws, heal, give bonuses to hit and damage, give extra attacks and movement--but most players overlook that and focus on the one thing that all leaders have in common (healing) as though that were the most important thing that leaders bring to the table.For monsters, the nonclemature is useful, though with monsters as simplistic as 4th edition monsters, I hardly need a label to tell how to use it effectively. Most of them only have one or two effective ways to spend their rounds and reading their powers it is not hard to figure out what those are. That said, I think minions are a terrible idea both from the standpoint of immersion and from the gameplay standpoint and solos and elites tend very strongly towards grind. (You don't even need to bring in monstrousities like the elite insubstantial cleric with cure serious wounds and healing word from LFR's Dale 1-1 to make that point, but 90% of those who played that mod will have first-hand experience with grind at its worst). Also, while this may or may not be a function of the elite/solo/normal/minion structure of 4e monsters, I have found that 4e makes it very difficult to construct a fight where the monsters outnumber the PCs 2 or 3 to 1 without using minions. That was no more difficult than constructing any other non-solo fight in 3.x.</blockquote>

Verification