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<blockquote data-quote="Plane Sailing" data-source="post: 4655273" data-attributes="member: 114">Personally I think that they are no help at all to players, in that they pigeonhole classes and pigeonhole characters too much.The cynic in me sees them as an an attempt to produce grids (roles vs power source) to enable loads of new classes to be created to fill PHBn to PHBn+1 and so on.D&amp;D is a class based system, and that is fine. I prefer the way classes have been created for years and years where they are developed around a strong central idea. 4e classes don't so much have a strong central idea as a fusion of a role and a power source.What I see is less players thinking about being &quot;Blagwulf the bold&quot; or &quot;Sienna the Sneaky&quot; and instead just fitting into the pigeonhole for their role. Like all the others in their role.Monster roles may be happy for new DMs to sort out appropriate challenges, but again it seems to have been a license for designers to create a bunch of wildly different versions of a monster which maybe have one tiny thread linking them together. I much preferred the 3e method of having base creatures to which classes could be added to support different roles (for instance).So, from my point of view class roles have probably met everything that WotC wants from it and done nothing for me.Monster roles are OK, and perhaps helpful in some cases, but largely are a framework for designers too.Cheers</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Plane Sailing, post: 4655273, member: 114"] Personally I think that they are no help at all to players, in that they pigeonhole classes and pigeonhole characters too much. The cynic in me sees them as an an attempt to produce grids (roles vs power source) to enable loads of new classes to be created to fill PHBn to PHBn+1 and so on. D&D is a class based system, and that is fine. I prefer the way classes have been created for years and years where they are developed around a strong central idea. 4e classes don't so much have a strong central idea as a fusion of a role and a power source. What I see is less players thinking about being "Blagwulf the bold" or "Sienna the Sneaky" and instead just fitting into the pigeonhole for their role. Like all the others in their role. Monster roles may be happy for new DMs to sort out appropriate challenges, but again it seems to have been a license for designers to create a bunch of wildly different versions of a monster which maybe have one tiny thread linking them together. I much preferred the 3e method of having base creatures to which classes could be added to support different roles (for instance). So, from my point of view class roles have probably met everything that WotC wants from it and done nothing for me. Monster roles are OK, and perhaps helpful in some cases, but largely are a framework for designers too. Cheers [/QUOTE]

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