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Roles - do they work?
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<blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 4655756" data-attributes="member: 32536"><p>That is a pretty odd thing to by cynical about. When has WotC <em>ever</em> needed a justification to create lots of classes? There were tons of classes in 3E even without power sources and roles, so I don't see how the addition of those things would change anything. Besides, when has the addition of large numbers of classes <em>ever</em> been a bad thing?</p><p></p><p>Regardless, WotC has even said that they are not interested in "grid-filling", and it is the <em>players</em> who are demanding and expecting that holes in the "grid" get filled.</p><p></p><p>Nonsense. If that were true, then it would be impossible for two classes to share the same power source and role and remain distinct. Class pairs like the Ranger and Rogue or Warlock and Sorcerer clearly contradict that. 4E classes <em>are</em> built around a strong central idea, but they also happen to belong to roles and power sources. It is not like this is a totally new thing, either, considering the various "power source" books of 3E, such as <em>Magic of Incarnum</em> or <em>The Expansed Psionic's Handbook</em>, which presented a number of classes that fulfilled different roles in the party rooted in the same flavor and mechanics.</p><p></p><p>Again, I consider this to be absurd. Besides, what exactly is the "pigeonhole for their role"? What is the "pigeonhole" that makes the Warlord and Cleric classes even remotely the same, let alone every individual Warlord or Cleric regardless of race choice, feat choice, weapon choice, and individual characterization and player personality? Such a thing can't possibly exist.</p><p></p><p>Well, if you are talking about the different versions of humanoids, I can't possibly disagree with you more. Those seem to be one of the most wildly popular kinds of creature in the new MM, and the vast majority of DMs (including myself) seem to love them because they allow complex and fun encounters with no prep work. Besides, it is trivial to create new creatures to add to the mix using the monster creation rules, monster race stats, templates, and class templates. All that has been removed is the <em>necessity</em> of doing a lot of creative work yourself, not the ability to do so.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TwinBahamut, post: 4655756, member: 32536"] That is a pretty odd thing to by cynical about. When has WotC [i]ever[/i] needed a justification to create lots of classes? There were tons of classes in 3E even without power sources and roles, so I don't see how the addition of those things would change anything. Besides, when has the addition of large numbers of classes [i]ever[/i] been a bad thing? Regardless, WotC has even said that they are not interested in "grid-filling", and it is the [i]players[/i] who are demanding and expecting that holes in the "grid" get filled. Nonsense. If that were true, then it would be impossible for two classes to share the same power source and role and remain distinct. Class pairs like the Ranger and Rogue or Warlock and Sorcerer clearly contradict that. 4E classes [i]are[/i] built around a strong central idea, but they also happen to belong to roles and power sources. It is not like this is a totally new thing, either, considering the various "power source" books of 3E, such as [i]Magic of Incarnum[/i] or [i]The Expansed Psionic's Handbook[/i], which presented a number of classes that fulfilled different roles in the party rooted in the same flavor and mechanics. Again, I consider this to be absurd. Besides, what exactly is the "pigeonhole for their role"? What is the "pigeonhole" that makes the Warlord and Cleric classes even remotely the same, let alone every individual Warlord or Cleric regardless of race choice, feat choice, weapon choice, and individual characterization and player personality? Such a thing can't possibly exist. Well, if you are talking about the different versions of humanoids, I can't possibly disagree with you more. Those seem to be one of the most wildly popular kinds of creature in the new MM, and the vast majority of DMs (including myself) seem to love them because they allow complex and fun encounters with no prep work. Besides, it is trivial to create new creatures to add to the mix using the monster creation rules, monster race stats, templates, and class templates. All that has been removed is the [i]necessity[/i] of doing a lot of creative work yourself, not the ability to do so. [/QUOTE]
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