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<blockquote data-quote="ProfessorPain" data-source="post: 4658173" data-attributes="member: 82012"><p>you can't bring them together without having both elements. So it still has classes. But what it brings from the point based systems, is options and the ability to customize (though multiclassing and a fairly robust skill system).&nbsp; I am not saying it has all of the elements of a point based game; but it brought a lot of us over to D&amp;D when we had left it in the 90s for point based systems.&nbsp; Personally I thought once you got the hang of how to class dip, there were tons of things you could do. The biggest problem with 3E was the potential for seriously over powered characters. It really required that the GM be extra careful. With a good GM, I didn't encounter this problem. WIth a GM who didn't understand how 3E worked, serious balance issues arose---which is why I was looking forward to 4E. For me what it came down to was this; I thought 4E was going to take what 3E had done to the next level. What they did instead was create an entirely different game. Nothing wrong with that. But it wasn't my expectation, and so I was dissapointed when it was released. After the initial dissapointment, I&nbsp; was able to enjoy 4E, when I played ball with the role system. But I still don't enjoy it as much as 3E. Just don't feel like it is as easy to get the guy I picture in my imagination; and I find the roles a little too narrow, so that I am forced to do stuff I consider boring during combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="ProfessorPain, post: 4658173, member: 82012"] you can't bring them together without having both elements. So it still has classes. But what it brings from the point based systems, is options and the ability to customize (though multiclassing and a fairly robust skill system). I am not saying it has all of the elements of a point based game; but it brought a lot of us over to D&D when we had left it in the 90s for point based systems. Personally I thought once you got the hang of how to class dip, there were tons of things you could do. The biggest problem with 3E was the potential for seriously over powered characters. It really required that the GM be extra careful. With a good GM, I didn't encounter this problem. WIth a GM who didn't understand how 3E worked, serious balance issues arose---which is why I was looking forward to 4E. For me what it came down to was this; I thought 4E was going to take what 3E had done to the next level. What they did instead was create an entirely different game. Nothing wrong with that. But it wasn't my expectation, and so I was dissapointed when it was released. After the initial dissapointment, I was able to enjoy 4E, when I played ball with the role system. But I still don't enjoy it as much as 3E. Just don't feel like it is as easy to get the guy I picture in my imagination; and I find the roles a little too narrow, so that I am forced to do stuff I consider boring during combat. [/QUOTE]

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