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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Little Raven" data-source="post: 4658260" data-attributes="member: 10095">They tended to be good at those things if they focused on them, to the detriment of everything else they can do. They can lock down a single opponent with grappling or tripping after spending levels pumping feats into a circumstantially-based control ability. And as many monsters had stats for grappling and such that outstripped the PCs, fighters would often fail to keep control over their targets because it's hard to grapple a creature that gets  +4 bonus to size on top of his obscenely high Strength score.How is he an obvious choice? He takes more damage, and usually has a higher capability for being missed due to wearing heavy armor. If I'm an ogre, and I have a choice between a fighter with full plate that I might not hit and even if I did, he's got oodles of hit points and a wizard with no armor (easy to hit) and low hit points (easy to kill), what makes the fighter an obvious choice?How? I step past the Fighter, take my AoO for like 15 damage, then begin laying into the wizard. Hell, I can bull rush the fighter way better than he can do it to me, so he's not stopping me from moving anywhere.Strategic placement loses its value if there is no way to prevent enemies from changing placement during the fight. If the fight has no way of actually preventing the ogre from engaging the wizard, then the fact that the wizard started in the back and the fighter on the front line is only a delay to the ogre, not an actual obstacle.Because of that, I had to actively play monsters as stupid quite often. Healing is the core element of the leader class, as "being alive" is the ultimate buff.Then stop responding to me or put me on ignore. I will respond to your posts as I respond to any other member's posts.Cleric was an exceptional case in 3e, because they went insane when designing him. The 3e Cleric is worlds away from the AD&D cleric, since they loaded him up with spells he had never had before (tons of damaging ones, ones to make him a better fighter than a fighter, etc).As I pointed out, there was nothing mechanically to allow the fighter to defend his allies. All mechanics are artificial, and no, it didn't happen naturally in battle, as I explained above with my ogre and wizard example.</blockquote>

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