NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4708228" data-attributes="member: 2067">So here's the core of my idea in a slightly new way:The big point to grok is that combat is just one way to resolve a conflict. There's nothing inherently "special" about it in that respect -- any skill challenge can, really, be represented with the same mechanics that combat can. So the combat roles are there to add (and protect) variety in combat. So we need to steal a bit of inspiration from combat (but not too much)First, we need to find what types of challenges D&D characters face: combat is one that is already covered, but what are the others? Easiest thing to do is to classify the skills into even broader categories: what challenges do the skills help you solve, what goals are they used to accomplish, when not in combat?There's basically three:Exploration is getting from one place to another.Persuasion is resolving a personality conflict.Discovery is resolving a puzzle or other brain-teaser.These are "the" three out-of-combat challenges present already in 4e. Interestingly, that means four types of challenges that (probably not coincidentally) map to the classic four-man party:Fighters are good at Combat ChallengesRogues are good at Exploration ChallengesClerics are good at Persuasion ChallengesWizards are good at Discovery ChallengesBut that observation is just an interesting distraction right now. We're going for 4e-ish-ness here, and in 4e, EVERYONE is good at combat challenges (but in different ways), so EVERYONE needs to be good at non-combat challenges (in different ways). To keep it simple, let's not go with four roles per challenge (though we COULD, if we wanted more complexity, I'm not worried about it now). We can split each kind of challenge, like we can split combat, in two: One type of character is the "attack-oriented role" (the Striker/Controller) who gets you to your goal quickly. The other is the "defense-oriented role" (the Defender/Leader) who makes sure you don't go down before you're finished.So we have three OTHER kinds of challenges, and these three kinds of challenges have two roles each:Exploration Challenges<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Trailblazers help you move quickly to your endpoint. They break down doors, leap chams, and swim rivers (strikers) or pick locks and disable traps and find shortcuts (controllers). Classes might be Fighter (kick down the door! Climb the mountain!), Ranger (Know this dungeon like the back of your hand!), Rogue (They call this a lock?), and Wizard (Passwall!)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Suppliers help make sure you don't die on your way there. They use the stars to orient you, keep a map of where you've been, and make sure you get buy your rope and bedroll (defenders) or find food, hunt animals, and make contact with locals to resupply (leaders). Classes might be Cleric (Pelor's gaze will not be harsh), Paladin (My temple will supply us), Warlock (I step into the Fey to cross this land), or Warlord (FORWARD, MARCH!)</li> </ul>Persuasion Challenges<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Marketers help persuade others to your goal. They challenge your opponent's preconceptions and undermine their confidence (strikers), or give them new ideas and make them say things they don't mean (controllers). Classes might be Paladin (convert or die!), Rogue (clever wordplay), Warlock (traps you into agreements you didn't want to make), and Wizard (stunning logical arguments!)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Supporters help make sure you don't change your mind so easily. They stop others from making outrageous accusations, talking up your good points (defenders) or remind you that you have good points and that giving in might be a slippery slope (leaders). Classes might be Cleric (do not waver in your faith!), Fighter (We're buddies, right?), Ranger (I trust you with my secrets), and Warlord (You can do it! Go go go!)</li> </ul>Discovery Challenges<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Geniuses figure out the puzzle. They solve the clues and work out the logic (strikers), or twist the idea into the open and do the research (controllers). Classes might be Cleric (that is a reference to the Myth of Kyus), Rogue (They were talking about this down at the pub), Wizard (Aha! N=5!), or Warlord (The strategic option seems to be...). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Organizers make the information available quickly. They stall for time and access new avenues of information (defenders) or edit your response and make sure you phrase it in the form of a question (leaders). Classes might be Fighter (I'm carrying your library), Paladin (If we torture this heathen some more...), Ranger (pacing helps you think!), or Warlock (need some ancient entity summoned up?)</li> </ul>We can keep the "successes" and "failures" model of skill challenges, since that's basically HP, and now all we need are interesting powers that model sharp wit (or whatever) as much as sharp swords. [sblock=Each Skill's Analysis]Acrobatics is balancing and wriggling around -- it helps you get from Point A to Point B (even fighting off some restraints) so it's basically Exploration.Arcana outside of identifying monsters in combat is used to detect magic -- it's basically Discovery.Athletics is moving around, so it's pretty obviously ExplorationBluff is deception, so it's Persuasion.Diplomacy is pretty obviously Persuasion.Dungeoneering, when out of combat, helps you find food, so that goes in with Exploration.Endurance helps you survive weather and without food, so it's Exploration.Heal helps you treat a disease, which is pretty ambiguous...I'd put it mostly in Exploration, but it might also be Discovery.History, as a straight Knowledge skill, is pure Discovery.Intimidate is Persuasion.Nature is multifaceted...it's Discovery because it's knowledge, and it's also Exploration, because of the foraging, and Persuasion, because of the animal handling.Perception is used to follow a trail or search an area, so it's mostly Discovery, but it might also help in Exploration.Religion is pure Discovery.Stealth is mostly Exploration, helping you get somewhere.Streetwise is mostly Discovery, used to gather information.Thievery opens doors and the like, so it's mostly Exploration.[/sblock]And I am available to write for it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I'm not sure the GSL would permit such a thing, though. Perhaps I should pitch something to Russ for ENPublishing anyway? How do I even do that? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /></blockquote>

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