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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Darwinism" data-source="post: 5734438" data-attributes="member: 6669722">Then don't play D&D. It's that simple. D&D has always been about fantasy archetype roles. There's a plethora of other systems that won't tell you what to do. D&D is not and has not ever been one of them.Why? What is wrong with progress? If someone else has a good idea, why should you ignore it just because it's part of some other system? To give an analogy; if a sedan was using a 60mpg engine, does that mean no one designing trucks should use it simply because they didn't design it first? There is nothing wrong with cribbing good ideas unless you're convinced you're at the pinnacle of design. In which case you're a complete basket case.No, it's not their problem, it's the system's problem. When clerics by default make the best healers in the system it's not the player's fault that they expect clerics to heal. And you didn't address my question; why should a class who makes the only good healer until you add splats be restricted to either healing or being fun? Why shouldn't they have the capability for both?Please tell me how it's improbable. Because it's not. I mean, I know you want it to be, but man it's not even all that rare to see a 4E Fighter who's not wearing anything more than Hide, tops. I know you want it to be improbable like it was in 3E because there were so many mechanical penalties, but man to anyone who knows 4E even vaguely you're just making things up.You give the implication that you think some quirky sub-optimal character somehow is better, in your view, and then attack a system you don't even understand for not letting you make sub-optimal characters as easily. But you don't even know the system you're attacking, so you don't know that 4E is actually better at making niche builds. That's what's funny.Oh and the insistence that the quirky builds are why you play D&D, when 4E is the friendliest to them in an unfriendly series of systems and there are tons of systems that would perform better to fulfill your stated desires out of a TTRPG.Hahahahahaha oh my god you think that D&D isn't a combat simulator? And that roles somehow define all a character can ever do period the end? My god. You don't even understand your own hobby. D&D has always been a combat simulator; it's based off of a wargame, for the love of god. What do you think it is? Some intricate socio-political simulation? Just because skills are tacked on and you can RP doesn't mean it's not primarily combat-focused. RP can happen in any system regardless, and the skill system's importance is very much downplayed compared to combat. Not to mention being pretty bad compared to other systems.And, no. A player who wants to RP is going to RP regardless of what they're told. A player that wants combat is going to get into combat. I know full well my Paladin's role is a tank. It has never once stopped me from RPing him as far as I choose. Clarifying roles only tells people what they should expect when combat comes around. It's not more likely than not to influence their out-of-combat decisions and unless the people you play with are robots it doesn't tell them that the only answer to any situation ever is their role.Also an over-emphasis on combat can be present in any edition of D&D. Might as well swear them all off, too! Because some people somewhere might have fun with combat, the whole system is flawed!Go try other games.Darwinism has been banned from the thread for this post. Hopefully everyone else can continue without further incident. Plane Sailing</blockquote>

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