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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5737186" data-attributes="member: 48965">See this is where I'm getting a little confused...  Imagining your "character" as a nordic barbarian vs. making a ranger when what you want is a character with the hit points, healing surges and skills of a fighter isn't just a matter of reskinning, it has real mechanical effects outside of your combat role. Again there is a lot tied up in class and by attaching combat role to it in 4e they just added one more thing your class dictates... which means less flexibility and less customization.   Emphasis mine: This is why I find permeton's houserule it all solution unsatisfactory. As to the rest of this paragraph... we are very much talking houseruling because reskinning different classes doesn't give you other things tied up in them. If I'm looking to make a fighter class archer then I am very much looking to create an archer that has greater durability, wider range of armor, no woodland skills or associations, fighter skills, etc.  So wait, your "noble-born", "city-dweller" has the following as class skills...<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm" target="_blank">Climb</a> (Str), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm" target="_blank">Craft</a> (Int), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/handleAnimal.htm" target="_blank">Handle Animal</a> (Cha), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm" target="_blank">Intimidate</a> (Cha), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm" target="_blank">Jump</a> (Str), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm" target="_blank">Listen</a> (Wis), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/ride.htm" target="_blank">Ride</a> (Dex), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/survival.htm" target="_blank">Survival</a> (Wis), and <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/swim.htm" target="_blank">Swim</a> (Str).  I guess you could squint really hard and come up with some reason he's missing alot of the skills most people would consider trademarks of being born in the city or as a noble... though it's definitely not the skill set I would have pictured for him... Diplomacy, Knowledge(anything), Sense Motive, Speak Language, Profession. Of course since 3.x is a little more flexible picking a different class to represent him won't necessarily dictate your combat role as well.  Which is the point that seems to be getting lost in the archer vs. melee fighter debate.  It's not about weapon, but about combat role.  Because what you consider "plausible" isn't to some people... why is that so hard to understand. Your Barbarian above is not, IMO, a plausible solution for creating a city-dweller, noble-born, character... no matter how much you "reskin" the Barbarian. The ranger, IMO, is not a plausible hard-as-nails, mercenary archer who grew up in the tent towns of a major city. No matter how much you reskin him. They have actual mechanics that work against the concept.</blockquote>

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